Japan breed koi vs local bred
  • vinsonchuavinsonchua November 2011
    Posts: 163
    This is a question that fellow newbies like me has been wondering. What is key difference between the local bred fishes to that of the jap bred? I was told that local bred will not have the same beni intensity compared to the jap fishes. Any truth in this? From genetic point of view, this should not be the case since the parents are from the same origin. Is it due to the growth technical, environmental factor, nutrient ratio, or even choice of parent crossing?
  • waterkeeperwaterkeeper November 2011
    Posts: 16
    Yupe ... all of the above, Dont forget the knowledge of the japanese breeder in culling the baby kois, from thousands to hundreds maybe less. they've been doing this for many many years :)
    www.kusukakoi.com - Sharing Nishikigoi Experience !
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Beside all the above, the Japanese breeder went through extensive study and try and error when choosing the oyagoi(parent koi). The oyagoi preferred will have good body, big(well above 80cm most of the time), good skin quality and flawless pattern. Even with these condition, offsprings may still not up to their standard. Extensive culling is carried out to maintain the standard as not all babies produced are as good as their parent.

    In local koi, some even lay eggs even when the size not even 60cm. Culling is not as strict as the Japanese's breeders. From the result of successful breeding of gosanke in Malaysia alone, many will agree with me that the result is way far from the Japanese. Maybe non gosanke like chagoi or ogon can produce better result as the chracteristic are less demanded compare to gosanke.

    Last but not least, the environment, ponds and skill growing offspring are very essential in producing good kois. The Japanese breeders have almost 100 years experience in this industry and for a local breeder to achieve the same standard may require a lot of catching up. Not impossible but a lot of time, study and money required.
  • lautslauts November 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Vinson,

    Why not test it out yourself. You can go to an aquarium in PJ Paramount Yee Fatt and get a local grade A Kohaku for RM8 and go get a Japanese bred Kohaku at Atari for Rm100. Use your best skill to keep both. After 6 months come back to us on what you think ? That's comparing the best local koi vs the poorest Japanese cousin ;-)

    ts
  • KaajKaaj November 2011
    Posts: 376
    I believe Big Bro ThiamHwa did such an experiment. The local Kohaku did fairly well in terms of growth when quarantined alongside his show winning Dainichi sakura showa. However, after 40cm, it went downhill, while the sakura bloomed (literally) :)

    It may not be a case of the bloodline alone, but water conditions and weather in Japan that promote an optimum breeding ground. We tend to forget that the fry are not sold immediately, but are sold after some months.

    On the other hand, there is a famous breeder in singapore - nipponkoi if I am not mistaken, which has produced some exemplary "local" koi.
  • lautslauts November 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Not forgetting Bro Danlee's Sallymiya ogon. But i think the ogon is an exceptional case.
    ;-)

    ts
  • vinsonchuavinsonchua November 2011
    Posts: 163
    Agree with bro Laust that the best way is to trial thru growth experience, and that is where the fun of this hobby lies. The knowledge share will help to verify urban legend and help establish our understanding. From my limited exposure, there are some truths on the observation on the body growth conformation and color consistency in comparation.

    Having say that, there are still aspiration among hobbyists to seek to match up the results attain by the Japanese breeders whom are miles ahead in term of resource, knowhow and experience.


  • ashfaqashfaq October 2012
    Posts: 799
    Beautiful explanation given by the kohaku-koi-house, still he dont want to call his kois as local, instead he wanted to call as Japanese kois :-))

    "Often customer asks about the difference between imported Japanese koi and local bred koi. In fact, bloodline is the most important here - the quality of the parent koi we use to spawn koi.

    I would use this analogy to explain....... A Japanese multi-national company sends its Director ( handsome, tall and intelligent) to work in Malaysia and his wife also came along to join him in Malaysia. 1 year later when they have a son born in Malaysia. This son will naturally have features following his parents and not looking like an European or Indonesian. In summary, still Japanese.

    So if we fly in Japanese jumbo parent koi to spawn our koi here, ours are not the unpolular 'local koi' (spawned with local koi of poor bloodline) but still known as Japanese koi. Our koi will grow in size depending on your pond environment and the koi food you give. Have fun hunting your koi.


    PH Ong / KK House "


    http://www.kohaku-koi-house.blogspot.in/2007/03/test-at-640-x-340.html
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
    Post edited by ashfaq at 2012-10-22 05:09:47 pm
  • ashfaqashfaq October 2012
    Posts: 799
    kepong Aquarium (M) SDN BHD differentiate about Japanese kois Vs Local/Domestic kois in beautiful way here goes...

    <B>First encounter with the Koi fish </B>
    It began on 19th Dec 1999 when I moved into a new house. I have engaged a fish pond designer to build a fish pond in order to break the monotonous look of the house. The designer built an 18 ton pond to beautify my garden.

    At that moment, I did not have the slightest clue about rearing kois. Not having any understanding and knowledge about kois. As far as I am concern, a lot of people rear kois in their garden pond and I could do that too. In the beginning, I was not prepared to buy good kois, or rather I should say expensive fishes. The main reason was that I have yet to appreciate kois and was not capable of choosing good quality kois. I simply bought 40 over kois of about 60cm from my friend at RM150 each. My friend advised me not to rush into it and buy so many at one time. However, it was as if I have found a treasure and bought everything from him, fearing that he might change his mind and not sell me the rest.

    Due to conscience, my friend later admitted that the kois I bought were just ordinary kois which he did not want anymore. He felt sorry and gave me a pump motor. I happily accepted and told him that it did not matter as I was only interested in the feeding of kois. I enjoyed that moment when all the kois rushed forward for food.

    Not long after that, a lot of problems arose. The pond water turned green after I put the kois in. I made a lot of inquiries and could not find the causes or any solutions. There were different opinions given to me. I have tried a few measures including installing Japanese cotton, installing ceramic display items etc. but did not solved the problem. Later, it was discovered that the main problem was the filtration system of the fish pond. A friend advised me to install an Ultra Violet lighting system which later solved the problem.

    After solving this problem, my interest increased and I frequented a few koi shops. I read a lot of books and magazines on kois. I found that my fish were really ugly and released them. I then bought 100 kois , each costing at RM100. My attitude was that I would be happy if there were 3 or 5 good kois. However, these fish did not grow as big as expected and their colour gradually fade off. I released them again and bought more new kois which were more expensive.

    <B> Turning interest into business </B>
    During this period of time, one of my friends told me he knew a Taiwanese man who is good at breeding kois. He introduced me to the Taiwanese man and hoped that I could buy some good and value for money Koi fish.

    I made my first trip to Taiwan on 30th May 2000 to see the kois. I was not good at choosing kois then and felt that all the kois were beautiful and intended to buy them all. However, as a hobbyist with limited space and also financial constraint, I could not satisfy this eagerness of mine. It then came to mind that I could turn my hobby into a business.

    Back then, I was like a young cub, I was not able to distinguish the different basic types of kois, I could not tell a Showa or Goshiki but I started my business. My purpose was for entertainment, and self satisfaction, not for making money. I bought 10 fiber-glass tanks, built 2 ponds of 30-tonne capacity in my back garden and started my business.

    Come to think of it, the Taiwanese supplier did not put high hope on my having a successful venture. He still supplied kois to another Koi retailer in Malaysia. When this retailer complained to the supplier that supplying Koi to me will affect his business, he told him that I did not know anything about kois and it will only take half a year for my business to close down.

    Well, as god’s will, my business did not close down as expected but carried on persistently. I ordered kois worth RM50,000 twice every month. My strategy was telling my customers that the kois were Taiwanese breed and they were cheap. I became the first Malaysian who openly sold Taiwanese Koi fish. I did not lie to my customers and strictly believing that “do unto others what you would want to you” and earning money with my own capability.

    I have to select all the kois from Taiwan on my own. The Taiwanese koi supplier was not willing to help me. He would not allow any other staff to help me too. He will personally come to pick me up from the airport. Otherwise he will send his friend to fetch me directly to his Koi fish farm. They kept me company wherever I went and I felt like being held hostage. Their main motive was to keep me away from other Koi fish suppliers.

    Occasionally I complained that his fish were expensive. He would bring me to another Koi fish farm so that I could have a look. If I found good kois there, he would persuaded me that the quality of the koi is not good and very costly. Slowly, I realised his intention was that he wanted to let me know other people selling very expensive kois and his were much cheaper. It became a selling point for his business. At that time, I did not know the basic skill of selecting kois. I only knew how to compare prices. For almost two years I was lead in the wrong direction in gaining experience in kois.

    The good never last, eventually my customers lessen and my business was going down. I did a market research and found that all those kois that I sold did not grow well and the colours will fade. Most of my customers who had became my friends told me that they have to throw away the kois that they bought from me. I realised that I was going the wrong way about business. I was selling kois for money and not earning customers' trust. My business was bad as the regular customers never return and there were no new customers.

    <B>Turning Point</B>
    I have gone through two years of troubled path in my business. Until 2002, I arrived at an important turning point and entering a new journey of Koi business. I switched from Taiwanese Koi fish to Japanese Koi fish and turned my business into a specialty business.


    After switching from Taiwanese Koi fish, I went to Japan to meet the master of my teacher, Mr Maeda. He is the founder and owner of Okayama Momotaro Koi Farm. After understanding his history, I look up to his method of doing business. It is like a koi research centre. In the short period of 12 years, his result is compatible to those who have been in operation for 3 generations of over 100 years. He has also broke world record with a 3 coloured Taisho Sanshoku of 101 cm. Mr Maeda also taught me a lot of skills on keeping Koi fish and ways of doing specialty business.

    The initial batch of Koi fish imported from Okayama Momotaro Koi Farm were having colour fading problem. That was due to my inexperience in immunisation. I made a lost of about a few hundred thousand ringgit. I felt the hardship. In order to encourage and compensate me, Mr Maeda gave me 50 Koi fish of better quality. He then taught me how to take care of them. Finally, the hard work paid off, they were settling down successfully.

    However, my business still did not do well and there were continuous problems. As what my teacher said, I need a lot of time and patience to introduce Tategoi. I did not sell any kois for as long as 8 months. I have to bear the overhead expenses of over hundred thousands ringgit. At the same time, the popular fish was Flower Horns with a lot of customers wanting to buy that. My friends asked me to follow the trend and sell this type of fish. However, I am only interested in Koi fish and refused to sell any other types of fish.

    Gradually, I understand that it was better to do more and talk less. I began to take photo for my koisand made records of their growth in every 2 – 3 months. I made comparison with the previous records so that the customers could see for themselves the growth and changes of the kois. This is why I always say kois can actually "talk".

    At the same time, I got to understand that the process was very important if we wanted to bring out the inherent potential of its beauty for a tategoi. Despite the hardship, I built a few more ponds. They were the 150 ton big pond, 5 ponds of 30 ton and 3 ponds of 25 tons, 5 ponds of 5 tons and 3 of 3 tons water capacity. All in all

    I have built 18 ponds. Beside that, I gave the Koi fish the best environment and food, using very expensive bacteria house, feeding with the Momotaro koi food. I also add on some good bacteria, Vitamin C, Vitamin E and toufu in the feeds.

    <B>Progress</B>
    As the saying goes, there is always room for improvement. I knew that one needs to be professional when doing Koi business, then you can stand out among the others. Due to my interest in kois, I have study and understand it in depth. Learning about kois is a very hard subject. Kois itself and the water quality management are all scientifically related. I normally advised my customers that it is quality and not quantity that matters when rearing kois. As a koi dealer, I do not only sell kois to customers, I also counsel, coach and provide them after sales services. I felt that I need to work harder so that I am able to provide more professional views and services.

    During these few years of rearing kois, I have been going around to learn including to a few koi centres in Taiwan and Japan. I have even voluntarily worked there for free at my own expense. I have learned a lot on choosing the kois. Sometimes, I even helped out during Koi fish competition. Not only that, due to my attitude and my eagerness to learn I have even called my teacher in Taiwan when I encountered problems. My telephone bills could be as high as RM7,000 per month. The highest telephone bills were amounting to RM13,000.

    I love books on kois and they accompanied me anywhere. I was very hard working and like to chat about kois with friends.

    Under the care and teaching of my teacher and Mr Maeda, I truly have the full knowledge of kois. My feeling of satisfaction and success in specialising koi business were like never before. Personally, I like to keep the future Koi fish. It is difficult to describe the satisfaction upon seeing them growing and becoming beautiful everyday. One cannot imagine the feeling of success when a Koi fish won in a competition. There is another advantage of keeping future fish, with the feeling and the hope grow with the fish.

    These few years, I was happy to be invited to Taiwan and Japan as a judge for their koi competition with other experienced koi judges. What made me happier was that the customers have full trust in me, that they have asked me purchase kois in the behalf of them from Japan. They would pay for the cost and expenses for the fish I selected. I take these as compliments and as recognition.


    Kepong Aquarium (M) Sdn. Bhd.is also the first in the koi industry to invest and to implant MICROCHIPS in kois. This is to ensure that the customers' kois are of the maximum money-value as quality is guaranteed and assured.

    No matter what, I know that there is no limit to knowledge and learning. I will never let go of any opportunity to learn. I am ready to make new venture and not afraid to be the first to try out new idea and share the result with all. I will still take the path less traveled, which is to ensure the quality in kois.


    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • koi888koi888 October 2012
    Posts: 131
    hi bro Ashfaq
    ^:)^ ^:)^ ^:)^
    your love for koi
    wish can learnt some skill from you.
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    (Y) (Y)
  • IzrulIzrul October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Kepong aquarium?never been there..
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    One of the most important thing I learnt as a newbie is one needs to have lots of patience when koi hunting. Go for the Japanese breed and you will be glad you did.
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-10-22 10:48:16 pm
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    from my short experience locally bred koi usually having small body, cant jumbo or easily got pot belly. however i have some "locally" bred kois which is according to me is having a decent quality of imported koi. but locally here means : they importing oyagois from japan directly then spawn in indonesia ------- question: is this also called a local koi?
  • ashfaqashfaq October 2012
    Posts: 799
    Brother @grinkz01, Yes they are also called as local kois but we give other name like
    "Local koi breed with Japanese parents"
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
    Post edited by ashfaq at 2012-10-23 01:18:39 am
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Ming,
    Yes, they are considered local kois......but a higher grade ones.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • smokersmoker October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Bro Ming, in Indonesia they are called F1 (local kois with japanese parents).
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Watch this 6 part video on Momotaro koi farm and the techniques/hardship they go through to appreciate the complexity of the whole process.


  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Superb Koi's

    Thanks Kevin for sharing

    =P~ =P~ =P~

    L3
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    After watching won't be able to sleep for weeks hahahaha :-))
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro smoker....yup in indonesia this is called as f1....and luckily i have few f1 from wiguna tjandra bali....a breeder with momotaro farm minded....
  • IzrulIzrul October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Thanks for uploading bro kevin.really nice kohaku and sanke.i thought it was sakai farm....momotaro also good..
  • smokersmoker October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Bro Ming, yes i've heard that all oyagois of om Tjandra Bali bred kois are from Momotaro.
    I always agree that om Tjandra Bali is best amongst local breeders in Indonesia with the best facilities.

    Bro Kevin, what are you trying to do? poison us? that's a nice video. :-D
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro kevin thanks for the sharing...it is really superb koi....definitely out of my reach =((
  • muzamirmuzamir October 2012
    Posts: 254
    bro kevin..thks for sharing..... =P~ =P~ =P~
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Hehe sharing is caring :p
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Sharing is poisoning :-))
  • smokersmoker October 2012
    Posts: 715
    and poisoning is caring ;-)
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    And poisoning is killing......... :-))
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    just sharing one moment of harvesting tosai from locally bred oyagoi. so, using bro wahyu reference, this tosai is f2 grade (their oyagoi is f1)...
    http://youtu.be/hiv1srXzmsw
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    This kohaku is belong to one of Indonesian koikichi, budibali...local bred (F1), male and born in Aug 2010. This local male is always makes me drool..... =P~

    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/Kohakubudi.jpg[/IMG]

    Measured 61cm in August 2012.
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-10-25 02:42:25 pm
  • IzrulIzrul October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Not bad...seems perfect...anyway things are always that way.expensive is better..eventho local breed (f1) are good..
    Same goes to designer bags,shoes etc...imho
    Cheers :-D
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    I am just curious! Any none Japanese bred that is over 70cm? 80cm? Care to share the photos........thanks.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • weihanweihan October 2012
    Posts: 318
    Hi Bro Shukri, actually the chagoi variety can hit 80 cm easily.. Gosanke wise Im not sure about it..
  • IndraWIndraW October 2012
    Posts: 33
    here is my local bred koi..momotaro bloodline from Pak Tjandra Bali

    [IMG]http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z91/CRS-mania/NO9.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z91/CRS-mania/no9finish.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z91/CRS-mania/Sagalaherang-20110514-00133.jpg[/IMG]

    at 65 cm, probably her best shape

    [IMG]http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z91/CRS-mania/sanke2.jpg[/IMG]

    last measurement 75 cm


    she born in August 08, it means now she is early Gosai
    she is very shy eater so it is very hard to make her bulky. whe she is in her best shape (65 cm) i fed her 50% sinking pellets. But after that other fishes also tend to shy so i change again the diet now.






  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    abg shukri next week will take measurement of that male kohaku..and will update once i got the pict. my opinion, to reach over 70cm for a local koi with "good bloodline" is relatively simple. but to reach more than 80 is slightly difficult.
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks IndraW and Bro Ming.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    abg shukri, had a chance to bowl kois in my brother' (kakak ipar) pond today and upload for locally breed only.
    1) Kohaku, male, bred by Tjandra Bali, 74cm --- beni is degrade but shiroji and body well maintained.
    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/kohakutjandra-74cm.jpg[/IMG]

    2) Sanke, male, bred by Tjandra Bali, 81cm --- beni also degrade, very thin, a truly male type body. Can't get best shot as he turn crazy in measurement tank.
    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/sanketjandra-81cm.jpg[/IMG]

    3) Sanke, female, bred by my brother (accidental spawning). Male parent is above 2 local. Born in Nov 2011, today measured at 55cm already. Too fast growth I think but luckily the beni is still maintained.
    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/sankelocalF2-55cm.jpg[/IMG]
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-10-29 09:58:49 pm
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Wow
    Bro, ur brothers accidental spawning looks gud. He can be a breeder himself lah (Y)
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro TK, I think so, but he only can found this 1 piece from thousand of fries.....definitely not easy to become a breeder....now realize why good piece will cost you thousand $$$s

    Photo in May 2012 along with her siblings
    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/siblings-1.jpg[/IMG] and [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/siblings2-1.jpg[/IMG]
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-10-29 10:29:04 pm
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    4) another local, 70.5cm (measured last 3 weeks) also bred by Tjandra Bali.

    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/sankeginrin-June2012_zps391094ca.jpg[/IMG]

    5) lastly uploaded for today (must save energy for pond visit tomorrow morning... ) :-D
    sanke, male, 69cm, also bred by Tjandra Bali.
    [IMG]http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc443/grinkz01/sanketjandra-69cm.jpg[/IMG]

    Well, almost all of my and my brother's "locally bred kois" are from Mr. Tjandra Bali farm..
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-10-29 10:42:59 pm
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    pretty impressive locals bro. compared to our locals here, really cannot go LOL
  • kolampkolamp October 2012
    Posts: 222
    well the kid doesn't look locals to me....even if u tell me its japanese I believe it :-))

    How to differentiate?
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    previously i can differentiate by its head shape and (pot belly) but with many local breeders deeper understanding to use best and big oyagoi, honestly now i only can rely on a paper called as certificate to differentiate local and japan...
    ;-)
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-10-29 11:21:57 pm
  • IzrulIzrul October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Maybe the beni quality after all to differentiate local bred vs japanese...
    Since japan showa,sanke,and kohaku have thick intense beni when they reached 50 cm and above.

    Just a newbie thought
  • smokersmoker October 2012
    Posts: 715
    I will try to be honest, I might be wrong, but at least this is my honest view :)

    While they can grow bigger, there are still far distances of the skin quality (beni, shiroji, fukurin, teri, tsuya, etc) or body conformation.
    There are some good quality local bred kois here that can grow bigger, by Pak Chandra Bali or Mr. CKK here for example, but allow me to be honest, in bigger size there are distances in skin factor and body conformation factor. And i believe they agree too.

    By the way, growing bigger and growing jumbo are different. Grow jumbo is another matter.
    To maintain quality of body and skin at bigger size is already one challenge.
    To grow jumbo whilst able to maintain quality of body and skin is another challenge.

    That's why local bred kois still struggle to find places for major awards of big scale koi show.
    They are far from ready to compete.
    We have to take notice that, the japanese breeders up their game level every year, so it will take and need alot of seriousness, effort, time, ambition, learning, to one day level up till the same stage with the best bred kois of Japanese.

    We will happily wait for that day to come, so this skyrocketting price may stop for a while or for good. :-))
    Post edited by smoker at 2012-10-30 12:25:24 am
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Ming,
    Thanks for sharing. Surely these local kois looked nice especially the first male Kohaku. Tjandra Bali farm must have done something right and good practice during breeding and spawning..........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 October 2012
    Posts: 530
    agree with bro wahyu....above kois i think is above average for local indonesia bred. however when we compare with japan koi (freshly imported) they might be not comparable. so i think instead of genetic itself, keeping care is most important...this can make different. but to compare good quality local vs ordinary imported japan, well i still cant see the different...
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-10-30 11:56:24 am
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    I think once they improve on their culling skills, the quality will improve.
  • sleepymansleepyman October 2012
    Posts: 102
    Hi bros,

    let me share with you a local nippon bred shiro.

    Won a 2nd prize some time back.

    I think her Shiroji is still good, sumi still developing.. size 65bu now. Yonsai +



    Video courtesy of bro tony.

    Is she good enough for Singapore Young Koi Show?
    Your comments are most welcome.. thanks!
  • wongyengwongyeng November 2012
    Posts: 238
    Bro Sleepyman, well done ! I agree your Shiro is nice !
  • KekwaKekwa November 2012
    Posts: 261
    Bro sleepyman, must say you have a very good eye for choosing kois.
    Not many Nippon Shiros can turn out to be like the one you shown. Good contender for the coming koi show.
  • tonypecztonypecz November 2012
    Posts: 38
    Bro sleepyman you have a very good looking shiro!
  • IndraWIndraW November 2012
    Posts: 33
    bro grinkz01, i recognized most of your pak tjandra bali's bred koi. they are the same batch as mine. i almost chose your 81 cm male koi before hahaha...

    our kois look very thin... mine is very shy eater and only eat a lot when i fed her sinking pellet. does your koi also have the same behaviour ?
  • grinkz01grinkz01 November 2012
    Posts: 530
    ha..ha...bro indra i think so...pre ious sanke and first male kohaku were same batch but luckily kohaku has a female body while sanke iz very thin with very big head.

    he is a shy eater also...

    @bdo sleepyman...ur shiro is very good...despite her reddish shiroji (i hope just a mislead cause by photo effect)...
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-11-02 10:56:04 pm
  • TaiFeiTaiFei June 2013
    Posts: 21
    Once a month I'll visit Jalan Pasar to check the local scene after meeting with our field agents. Over the past 2-3 years I've seen significant improvements to the quality of the local bred ones. I suspect the local breeders must have bought oyagois from Japan. The local types of kois they have improved such as the Yamabuki Ogon. You can't just differentiate between a local yamabuki sold at Jalan Pasar and an average Japanese like from Izumiya. The ogon tosai have clear heads too. Good improvements too on Kohakus and Sanke. Good body conformation, skin quality, colour, pattern, comparable to the the F1, F2. The price is shockingly cheap too from (RM2-25). Usually on Wednesday morning most of the stalls will get the new stocks of kois and by 3pm the best ones will sell out. Not all stalls sells these good quality 'Ipoh Mali' kois, some still do sell those longkang kois. I've seen they unload the kois into plastic tanks, now some stalls sells more new local varieties such as Kujakus, Bekko, Ginrin Kohaku, Tancho Kohaku (very rare), Hariwake and Benigoi. Showas are still at rubbish standards. The new varieties are mostly short body but still good attempt by the local breeders. Although the local kois are still far from the show koi standard but I do encourage local breeders to continue their effort. The local bred kois are good to get kids into the koi keeping hobby, affordable for them, better immune, and perfecting their koi keeping skills before shifting to imported Japanese kois.

    I found a few website of local breeders but never seen their kois in real before except Aquatic international.

    http://mohantaro.blogspot.com

    http://aquasia.com/products.html

    http://www.sansuimy.com/index.html

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/stormrunner/3030111110/in/photostream/
    Post edited by TaiFei at 2013-06-25 11:55:34 pm
  • sleepymansleepyman June 2013
    Posts: 102
    Singapore has a proud representative too:

    http://www.nipponkoifarm.com/

    From my experience, very satisfied with the local bred Chagois, Karashis, Orchibas here.

    Some Gosankes are quite good too! (Y)

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