Is It necessary to periodically knock out the bacteria colony in the filter chambers?
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi there koi kichis,
    I am starting this new thread, titled as above as I believe, at one time or another, we are faced with outbreaks of bacteria infections in our pond eventhough we do daily flushing and water top up plus periodic cleaning of our filters. Without we realizing it, the Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and others keep coming back and give us sleepness nights and nightmares.

    My pond is once again infected with these deadly bacteria. A few of my fishes have fin rot and ulcer. So another round of quarantining and going through the painful process of a complete overhaul of the filter chambers and the pond.

    Frankly, I do not have the experience with Biotope, and I hope Paul or others can assist us in this area. I have never done this and I do not have a clue.

    And if any of the koi kichis have other ways and ideas, please chip in.

    As for me, probably not the best of method, I have bombed my pond twice with PP at 1 gram per ton (one session last for 8 hours). This is a bearable dosage. Then I did a 1gram per ton of methylene Blue. And of course 15 to 20 % water changes before new medication and dosages.

    Today, sometime in the evening, I will do a 100% cleaning of the filter chambers. For sure this will be a back breaking exercise. Once done, and with new water in the pond, I will salt at 0.5 to 0.6 %.

    And hopefully, the fishes will be OK.

    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2011-10-07 12:59:12 am
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Abang Shukri, it seems that recently many ponds are going through some problems, and I am also not excepted.

    A couple of months back, 2 of the fish in my pond (including my biggest kohaku which has never had any health problem for the last 4 years) kena ulcer also. I had been trying to save money by not using Biotope, as it is rather expensive for me. But after that experience, I placed an order with Max for Biotope again. Over the years, I have not had that much experience with ulcers, so I found it quite unsettling, especially since it happened during a time when I was quite busy with work. It is quite tedious for me to set up the Qtank and have to take care (change water daily etc) of an extra tank. Anyway both fish are almost fully recovered now.

    One of the contributing factors for this bout of ulcers was that a week prior to that, I was having some renovation work (involving cement) done in my filter. The contractor could not finish it within the same day and by the time he finished it the next day, the water pumps had been off for about 30 hours. The airstones were on, but there was no water mixing so the anaerobic bad bacteria were having a field time multiplying, unfortunately.

    I had also reduced my filter cleaning frequency from once every 2 weeks to once a month to try save some money (filter too big to wash myself). This may also have contributed to the increase in bad bacteria in my water. I have since returned to once fortnightly washing. With my new order of Max Biotope, I now dose 5ml/ton every 2 weeks the day after filter washing. Trying to keep the coliform count under control.

    But I still have problems. This time my kindai showa. She has actually had sinking problem for over 3 years already, and some felt she wouldn't have survived another 3 months when they saw her at a koi show 3 years ago, but she is still alive today. But throughout this time, other than gulping and parking at the bottom, she has looked fine. A week ago though, I noticed her shiroji starting to turn very yellow. That was the first indication that something was wrong. Within a couple of days, I noticed that she had facial inflammation (exactly the same as what killed my 84cm Sakai kohaku earlier this year) and her left eye was almost popping out. The surprising thing was that her belly had no ulcers despite all her bottom parking.
    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/4329/02102011286.jpg
    She is now in my quarantine tank. Have injected her with Lincomycin for 4 days already (1.5cc daily for this 73cm fish), today I will give her the 5th injection then return her to the pond before I leave for Spore NHA show tomorrow morning. I can't leave her in the Qtank as nobody will be changing water when I am away (for 5 days). Her face hasn't improved despite the injections, though she doesn't really look like she is about to die or anything like that. When I return from Spore, I will try to puncture the inflammation to release some of the pus within. I have not done it yet because I did not want to open a wound (there isn't any open wound yet) and then go away.

    The hobby continues to humble me.... :-((
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-06 06:43:32 pm
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Brudders,

    Sometimes it's difficult to know what went wrong. The normal culprit is new comers. Or else I can say I am lucky for q sometimes even I kept on swapping my kois between the two ponds. My routine has changed after I lost 7 kois due to the bacteria gill disease early last year. I am not sure whether what I am practicing is good or I am just lucky. Most hobbyist must have familiar with this routine.

    1) as I am not always around, once I came back from flight, I will back flush all the chambers.

    2) I will try to carry out partial water change 5 to 15% every alternate day.

    3) Once a month, I will drain one of my chamber(one at a time, the most 2 chambers from my 7 wet chambers) completely without taking the mat or bacteria media out. Before pulling out the stand pipe in the dry chamber, I will collect the pond water in the pails. When the chamber is dried out, I pour the water in the pails onto the mat. This will clean the mat effectively and with less effort. You can see the solid waste and dirt within the mat flowing away to the drain. If it's still dirty, then I will hose it with tap water until it's more less clean. I believe that there is still bacteria left on a lower percentage.

    4) When ever I see a sign of frequent flashing, a few kois parking, reddish skin, rotting fins or white spot, I will add my self-made medication which contained Formalin and Malachite Green. Normally I pour in the evening. The next two morning, I will do partial water change and start feeding again. If needed, the same evening I will repeat the process. Normally after 1st application, things have improved.

    5) If I have ulcer(always new comers), I will jab Ciprobay and quarantine with Blagdon Anti Ulcer. To maintain water quality in QT, I always add Vivakoi. With my routine and medication used, I hardly use any salt nowadays except to prepare water for before/after show in QT or newly set up tank.

    So far, with my limited time at home, it has been good to me.

    Thank you.
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Touch wood, so far I don't have an outbreak of ulcer. There was time a few ulcer spotted on the tail of a few koi when I ask the farm to net out the koi to measure their length.

    After that I dose a small amount of bio tope (60ml) into the pond and change water every day. Somehow the red spot disappear.

    But I think I have parasite problem in my pond even I dose with dimilin. The koi fin is red strip on the pectoral fins. I try using malachite green but it don't cure it.

    My maintenance is every week drain out 3 to 4 chambers and use a pump to pump water from the pond into the chamber to clean out the Jmat.

    I will try to back flush everyday except on Saturday and Sunday. :)

    In fact, every two months I will dose 60 ml into the pond for maintenance before I do a filter wash.

    To really cure the koi of illness, I will dose the correct amount of bio tope for 3 days in a row if there is a serious outbreak of parking and flashing on the kois.
  • heng84heng84 October 2011
    Posts: 77
    bro cookcpu u are using max biotope as well?? is there anyone who use those biotope purchased from malaysia? i have bought a bottle long time ago.. after seeing people comment.. i did not use it after 1 dose. if anyone is using and certified its safe then ill use it as maintenance
    Post edited by heng84 at 2011-10-06 07:26:40 pm
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro heng84, yes I am using max biotope.
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    I think amongst others, Bro Anuar and Bro Seng Choon are using Biotope bought in Malaysia. I believe from the look and the smell that the version available in Malaysia is more concentrated, but yet the recommended dosage is higher. I'm not sure why. Still, they report good results and no adverse effects. For me personally´╝î I dare not use the local version, as playing with chlorine dioxide is dangerous. Brother David has been using the Max version for many many years and continues using it, so to me, that is tried and tested, I'm comfortable with that.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Shukri,

    Unless you feel your biofilter is a breeding ground for bad bacterias , there is no reason to knock them out. Poor biofilter would mean poor water quality. It would make matters worse ? I recall you had ulcer problem with the Sakai from auction? could this be the cause :-?

    Bro , PP at 1g per tonne(1ppm) not sufficient, definately cannot maintain water purple for more than 1 hour. Try higher at least 3PPM.

    The biotope is for prevention rather than cure. It should cut down the bad bacterias in pond water. To share , I too am having some ulcer problems with my new QT tosais , 2 have finrot and one with mouth ulcer :-S. Despite many doses of Blagdon Anti Ulcer , problem still there , now applying topicals, more direct intervention. It was easier when it was just one koi , even with massive ulcer 20sen coin size. Similarly in a pond , i think if we apply biotope or whatever the ulcer is not going to get cured. It would help preventing others getting it , but until the ulcer is cured it would still be a source for infection for other kois. Unfortunately biotope is only effective in short period of time after application before breaking down while the threat from ulcer is everpresent in ulcered koi.

    ts

  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Abang Shukri, is your title a statement or a question?
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Paul, I have edited the title. It is a question.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • AnuarAnuar October 2011
    Posts: 688
    Hi Bros, as mentioned by Bro Paul, I have used up about 5 bottles in the past. The reason was mainly for maintenance but I have not touched biotope for about a year now. I think nothing beats proper filter washing.

    I agreed with Bro Paul that the stuff is strong. It has to be properly stored in glass bottle. If you get it from Cheras, you will need to transfer to a glass container as the plastic bottle is not strong enough. The liquid will leach through. And it will also bleach your clothes and causes itch if comes to contact with your skin.

    Each time I used it, I would administer 4 days in a row with the first at 10 ml/ton, thereafter at 5ml/ton.

    Whether there is any adverse effect, I didn't notice any.

    Good luck!
  • DanleeDanlee October 2011
    Posts: 694
    Like Bro Paul, I have also stopped using Biotope as preventive measure more than a year ago due to it's high cost. Touch wood, so far I don't have any outbreak of ulcer or fin rot.

    Besides backflushing my filter everyday, I also drain out my 1st & second chambers every week. I believe the most important thing that keep the bad bateria in my pond under contorl is the 2 layers of sieves (thanks Bro David) I managed to install (one at the BD and the other between the 1st and second chamber). I washed the BD sieve every day and the one between 1st and second chamber once a week. Unfortunately, due to bad design of my filter chambers, I can only get my pond contractor to do a thorough filter wash once every half year.

    Given what I have, I will try tiy to be more observant during feeding time. Normally, I will bowl up the koi to do topical treatment (either yellowpowder + bit of water + bonjela OR melachite green + bit of water + bonjela) whenever I spotted any koi with red spot or "ulcer-like" injury. Personally, I find this quite effective as it not only help heal the wound quicker but also prevent it from any potential outbreak.

  • SBSRIDHARSBSRIDHAR October 2011
    Posts: 50
    Bro Shukri,
    Yes we have to knock out all bacteria from our pond on regular basis. Touch wood in the last two years I did not face a situation to medicate my fish and pond. Once a month or every fortnightly I PP my pond. I use 1.5g Per tonne. Fishes are very healthy and active. In my pond 4 inches fish will grow 37 to 40cm in a period of six months. Apart from this I do not use any medicine for my pond. I allow the PP in my pond maximum 3 hrs only. What ever PP you do, some bacterias will survive, they will the multiply .
    That is why I do only a mild 1.5g dose and not heavy dose.

    S.B. Sridhar
  • KaajKaaj October 2011
    Posts: 376
    Its been more than a year since Ive had any problems. However, I just added 2 new fish to the pond, and many of the others have started parking and flashing. Notice that a couple of them have also got some reddish tone in their shiroji. Have been topping up 20% water per day, but I think its time to medicate. Should I use Dimlin or MG for 2 consecutive days?

    On another note, does anyone here actually use Vivakoi in their water, or do you use it with food?
    Post edited by Kaaj at 2011-10-07 07:38:35 pm
  • farikfarik October 2011
    Posts: 317
    Bro kaaj,
    I will go with MG, works after 2-3 days.vivakoi in food works wonders bro.in water expensive....if you got the budget after this afternoon's budget then put in water bro...
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Kaaj,
    I have used it in the water during the trial period. Worked wonders, but like everyone has said..........$$$ bro!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Guys ,

    Have anyone tried Remedor Aquatic ? I used it to clean my QT tank, nets and sometimes my sump and filter chambers. Effective against bacteria, fungus and even virus when used as preventive measure , not as cure similar to Biotope. At 1 ppm can be used in pond with kois. I have tried it twice with my pond , lots of foam with FF, kois are extra active like when using PP during treatment. Not sure effective or not since i don't test for coliforms and no particular problem with pond , touch wood. At less than RM300 per kg and 0.5-1ppm dose( 1 gram per tonne) , very economical.

    ts

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/4340/remedor.gif
    Attachments
    remedor.gif 41K
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Lauts, where did you buy the stuff from?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro,

    Try Syndel or any Bayer chemical distributor.

    ts
  • megatronmegatron October 2011
    Posts: 832
    Look like bro Lau bought it from India!
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • jaysonjayson October 2011
    Posts: 106
    Bro Shukri,
    touch wood my pond have no problem already 1 yr when I start my hobby 1 yr ago, all koi keep on effected ulcer. Sorry to say that i only have 2 tones pond when 10 kois. As i follow Paul advice wc 10% daily and backflush 1st and 2nr chamber weekly. i used to put fresh water direct into 1st and 2nd chamber to wash out the solid waste, i believe when fresh water wash my chamber also kill some of the bacterial, then i will put in some bacterial to culture back. :)
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Kaaj,

    I have not use Vivakoi for pond water but I have tried for quarantine tank, transport, koi show and food. The result was very good. I have no complain at all. For food, before this I only add in for morning feeding and the result was very encouraging in term of appetite and digestion. What I mean by digestion, I can see less poo and no floating jelly poo(which an indication of improper digestion).

    Recently I have reduced my stock to 29 kois. A week ago, I started adding Vivakoi to all meal(3 times a day). The different that I noticed is that when I back flushed my chambers, very obvious that the fishes' waste has reduced significantly. It could be the waste has broken up to smaller solid waste or the digestion/absorption has improved. Bro Shukri, if you have problem with solid waste, why don't you try to add Vivakoi to all your feeding and tell us whether you are getting the same result. As for me, I am not sure whether the waste is less due to less number of kois. But the amount of feeding doesn't change. On the kois, of course I can see their body shape is improving.

    I found it that it is cheaper to use with food as recommended dosage only 2-3% of the food's weight. The manufacture claims that we don't have to feed high protien food as the absorption is good. It was tested for table fish and prawn as the farms can save money from buying high protien food. I only use Saki Hikari wheatgerm and occasionally Saki Hikari Growth.

    To use for pond water, it's actually made in such that not much water change needs to be carried out. If our routine is partial water change like daily or every alternate day then eventually the live microbe might be flowing out with the water. I don't know but I have not add in for pond water. Bro Shukri should know better.

    I did asked around about Vivakoi. As the product can still be considered new, the way the live microbe functioned required better understanding so that we can optimize it's benefits and take precaution for any shortcomings. Hopefully Vivakoi can come out with bigger packaging for better pricing.

    I would like to exchange notes on this as I don't know whether others are getting the same result. Can't take 100% manufacture words for it ;-) So far it works fine to the scope of my usage. Since Vivakoi handled ammonia well, I am not sure about nitrite and nitrate for pond use as I only experiment it in QT which feeding was light. If you want to use for pond water, please carry out the test just to be sure. Please let us know the outcome.

  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Daniel Chew,

    That's Thai , cannot be haven't been to tomyam land >:-)

    Bro Capt,

    Can write essay now too , (handshake) . Keep it up.

    ts
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Lau,
    Last comment before I pack my bag for Frankfurt. :-D Wrote it when I was on the throne. I tend to get more idea when sitting on it :-))

    Bro, about the Remedor Aquaric, is it recommended mainly for pond treatment or maintenance? If for maintenance, how do you use it and how frequent it is recommended? It functioned more less like formalin.
    Thank bro.

    P.s: Which part of Thailand did you go, Phuket or Haatyai? :-))
  • farikfarik October 2011
    Posts: 317
    Bro ts,
    The remedor is the alternative for PP. It can be used to bomb the pond as well up to 2gm per ton.but the price is stiff lah....
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Captain, the waste solids for the fish are now less, but how about waste solids for the fish owner? :-))

    Abang Shukri, back to your title question, what do you really mean when you say "knock out the bacteria colony"? What I am doing is similar to Brother David, where filter is emptied and washed with tap water once every 2 weeks. Well, for him, his routine is not so fixed as he monitors water quality and other factors in deciding when to clean his filter, but say roughly once a fortnight.

    TAP WATER. Yes, many questioned why we use tap water instead of pond water. Exactly the point you are looking for. The chlorine in the tap water may knock down (but not totally knock out!!) a significant part of the bacteria colony, but it also knocks down the bad bacteria numbers as well!! The good bacteria will rebound really really fast as long as there is fish pooh for them to consume.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-08 12:41:19 am
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro ,

    i understand the Remedor is for maintenance only NOT treatment. i was informed once a week at 0.5 if clean pond to 1ppm. It is used in commercial fish/shrimp farming so more economical. Our pond practises are more like 'farming' :-)) than aquarium keeping hence not economical if we use products meant for aquarium use. i must stress i don't use it regularly except twice and for cleaning qt/nets after use. I am told that ponds owners have been using it regularly up to 3ppm :O . By posting i also hope that those who have been using it can come forward to share for benefit of all. But i am quite sure it is safe as they use it in shrimp hatcheries for biosecurity reasons to eliminate even viruses.

    Bro Paul , even the biofilter is emptied and hose down every fortnight?

    ts
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Lau, yes. Mats, brushes, even the versicell are all taken out for washing every 2 weeks. And the bioballs and mats in my bakki as well.
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    For me, my problem is getting rid of the solid waste i.e. always stuck in the Japanese Mats. Backwash and flushing daily helped only a bit. Best will be for me to use the water jet to dislodge the solid waste from the Japanese mat, which is a tedious and energy sapping task.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • DanleeDanlee October 2011
    Posts: 694
    Bro David & Paul practice of using tap water instead of pond water to wash their filter just got me thinking. I am just wondering whether it is a good practice to purposely not to use the anti-chlorine solution after our daily backflush (10% water change). The daily refresh of 10% chlorinated tap water will hopefully help to knock out some of these bad bateria and keep them in check on the on-going basis. Can this have the same effect as Biotope? If we can refill the water slowly, will it still cause gill damage or other issues over long run. I hope all Sifus out there can shed some light on this discussion. Thanks.
    Post edited by Danlee at 2011-10-08 05:57:31 am
  • WinlimWinlim October 2011
    Posts: 161
    Bro Paul,

    I had a kohaku that had the same exact eye problem as your kindai showa. I went to the pharmacy and purchase an eye drop called CNC. Cant remember the full name. About RM5 per bottle. maybe 5 or 10ml. USed it on the eye 3 times a day. About 1 bottle every 2 days. By the 3rd bottle the eye totally cured.

    Just wanted to share my experience
  • lauts2lauts2 October 2011
    Posts: 5
    Bro Danlee,

    Already thought and did some reading abt the idea. Not good. Ammonia in water will react with chlorine to form chloramine. Chloramine is very stable and stay active long time in water, poisons the fish slowly just like nitrite. Poisoning action is via bonding with the red blood cell so that the cell cannot carry O2. Do a google on chloramine and effects on fish to know more. I believe this could be a silent killer amongst us. Most of us will just add water then crystal or antichlorine. This may not have sufficient reactive time and insufficient amount to work on the chlorine hence the chloramine is formed. This chloramine will slowly accumulate and cause problem.

    ts
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Winston,
    Does the eye drop contain CHLORAMPHENICOL? This drug is good for curing ailing eyes.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • WinlimWinlim October 2011
    Posts: 161
    Bro Shukri

    I think that is the one. Like I said, I dont know the full name but I know it as CNC. Very cheap super effective
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Chloramphenicol is CMC........ :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Winston, thanks for sharing. I think there are many types of pop eye. In this particular case, I don't think it's a simple eye infection. The whole left side of her face is swollen, and because the eye is also in this area, the swelling pushed the eye out of its socket. The problem is dealing with the underlying inflammation, not the eye.

    I had the chance to discuss this problem with Brother David yesterday evening. He has seen a similar condition before. In most cases, he felt, the koi's health was already compromised by something else. In the case of my kindai, it was likely the long term sinking problem. His suggestion was to try release the pus by cutting a slit at the bottom of the inflamed area, and using Propolis as a topical. I will try next week.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-09 01:17:25 am
  • KaajKaaj October 2011
    Posts: 376
    Bro Farik, Thanks. I added MG for 2 consecutive nights, switched of the UV, didnt feed....and the koi are back to being active as of yesterday. Does MG also knock out bacteria in the filters ?

    Cap, Can you share how you mix Vivakoi with the food? As bang shukri pointed out, if have to put Vivakoi into water every month, it becomes rather expensive.

    Bro Dan, and Lau,
    When I do the water top-up daily, i do not add anti-chlorine. Only when i do massive water change/filter cleaning, add the crystals. No side effects yet. Koi are still alive and well after 2 years :)
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Kaaj ,

    Good to hear your kois are back in full force bro.
    How much is your daily top up? How often do you add crystals ? They would likely neutralise any chloramine in pond as most pondist would overdose on crystals, one advantage of using crystals. Further more your high organics ( i assume only ) would work on the chlorine?

    I am using APi water conditioner for my 3 day once filter wash abt 10-15%. i top up into the sump chamber , dechlorinate then pump into pond via bottom drain. Previously when i fill direct in pond and add antichlorine , i can see the kois will be a little stressed , not so active and recover the next morning. Now i do not notice anymore change in behaviour.

    ts
  • KaajKaaj October 2011
    Posts: 376
    Bro Lau,
    Backflush every 2 days, but water top up is everyday, cause I am a sucker for "stream theory" ;) I would say between 5-10% daily. I run the tap water into my trove before it falls into the pond. I certainly do not understand the science behind many of the theories we hobbyist believe, sometimes best to leave it to the eyes to determine whether things are OK or NOT :)
  • farikfarik October 2011
    Posts: 317
    Bro Kaaj,
    I believe MG doesn't knock out the bacteria in the filter if you're using 0.2mg per ton and below.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Kaaj,

    5-10% that's a lot without dechlorinating. [-X Do you see the kois looking stressed and lots of gill flap movement like running out of air ? Yep observation is key , your kois probably used to the chlorine regime already :-)) .

    ts
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Kaaj,

    Normally I will put the amount to feed food into a container or Tupperware which I can freely shake and mix. Then I will shake the Vivakoi and pour 2-3% of estimated food's weight. E.g, 3ml of vivakoi into 100g of food. Full Vivakoi cap is roughly around 15ml. If you are lazy like me, you can even mix it together in the morning even for the evening feed.

    Then I will shake and mix it until no soggy or wet indication on the container's wall and bottom. Then I waited for about 5 to 10 mins for it will fully absorbed. This will avoid Vivakoi being dissolved in the water when you feed the kois.

    As for this morning, I did not backwash my filter for almost a week just to check on the waste produced by the kois when fed with Vivakoi. This one I will let you experience and compare the result for yourself ;-)

    Regards
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2011-10-12 07:40:07 pm
  • KaajKaaj October 2011
    Posts: 376
    Thanks cap. Will kickstart this weekend and monitor the changes in feeding and waste.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership