How to reduce pH value from water source of 8.0 to 7.6
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    How to we reduce pH value from water source of 8.0 to 7.6?

    Should I reduce the amount of oyster/coral shell in the pond so that over time the incoming fresh water pH will be lower from 8.0 to 7.6.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro,
    To my understanding, oyster/coral will buffer the PH to a specific range. This range could be different from pond to pond. Normally it will maintain between 7.5 to 8.5. When acid is detected, the coral/oyster shell will slowly absorb and raise the PH back to the pond's normal PH.

    PH will slowly drop(toward acidic) when nitrifying bacteria activity exist. It will be lowered gradually if filter is not clean or no water change has been carried out over a period of time.

    Back to your question, if you remove the oyster shell, you will lose the buffet agent and sudden PH crash might happen especially during heavy acidic rain. But if your pond is fully covered, I believe removing some of the oyster shell would be fine. It might adjust your pond to a lower PH but maybe very little. Another way, get more nitrifying activity by having bigger surface area, more aeration and feed kaw kaw. Carry out small partial water change daily while your pond adjusting to a new feeding amount and till your new surface bacteria has matured.
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro ikankoikau,

    Thank you. I guess I have to take caution on not reducing too much oyster shell as my pond is not covered.

    I already have a 80 hiblow and 120 hiblow air pump for a 30 tons pond. Not sure whether the amount is enough to help reduce the pH of the pond water.

    I am already doing daily flushing with water top up. But with the pH of the tap water from 8.0 to 9.0 I guess it is very hard for the pond water pH to go down too fast as time past.

    I will have to remove 1 box of oyster shell and see over time how the pond pH goes and then maybe remove another box of oyster shell if the pH didn't goes down to the level I expected.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Hopefully it will work. Let us know if it does. Safer way is to promote more nitrifying activity in the pond. Some area, the tap water is high in PH. Matured pond tends to have lower PH as it aged. Mine is around 7.5. Good luck bro.
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro William, I would advise against removing your oyster shells, especially since your pond is not shielded from rain. Recently a hobbyist here had a pond wipeout due to pH crash during heavy rain. He had removed his oyster shells too, for some reason.

    Captain is right, removing the oyster shells will have little effect in lowering your pH. Oyster shells don't raise your pH when the water is alkaline. Only when it is acidic. My source water is also pH 8.8 - 9.0 but my pond pH is normally 7.3 - 7.5, even with 5-10% water changes daily. During fasting times (before koi show), the pH will rise to about 7.8 because of lower nitrifying activity. Perhaps you're not feeding enough?
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-02 12:33:32 am
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro Paul, I think I feed about 3kg of food per week. I am not sure is it too little. :)
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    I used to feed about 8kg a week when I had about 15 fish in my pond. Now I have 21 fish in my pond (but smaller average size), I'm feeding about 5kg per week. Way below Brother David's feedrate, I believe.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-02 03:55:10 am
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Hmm...I have 21 fish, I guess I have underfed them.... :-)) No wonder all the koi so skinny.
  • farikfarik October 2011
    Posts: 317
    Bros,
    Is there any standard feed rate that we should follow....Feed until they don't come up for food ,feed for 5 minutes,just throw in the pallets like throwing chicken feed, or put in little by little....normally the greedy ones like the karashi or chagoi will be like a glutton.Any sifus follow the cm per kg rate....any chance or ways getting bottom feeders to come up....sorry to be straying away from topic.
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro, I think to a large extent it depends on what you would like to achieve? Is your pond conducive for sinking food?

    Let me start a new thread about this...
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-02 05:44:17 am
  • st8800st8800 October 2011
    Posts: 103
    Bro William

    I believe it could be the concrete walls of your pond. I used to have high PH of 8.4 and above when I had concrete walls. Later, I upgraded the pond to fibre glass and it is now around PH 7.4-7.5 constantly.
    Best
    Spencer
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Concrete/cement will leach and create high alkalinity for the first 1-2 months but after that it should stabilize lower leh. Most hobbyists here have concrete/cement ponds, but their pH is not so high. I think Bro William's pond already much longer than 2 months, right?
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-10-02 03:54:31 pm
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro Paul,

    My pond is one year old after the upgrade. That is why I post this question on how to reduce the pH level. I believe the concrete ponds should not be leaching so much as when it is new. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Bro Spencer, that is a food for thought. Maybe I have to fibreglass the pond to see how low the pH will go down.

    Thank you to all for sharing. :)
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro William,
    I know this sound absurd, why don't you feed your kois more than normal.......see what it does to your pond water pH.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2011-10-03 08:53:17 am
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro Shukri, it is not absurd. You and Bro Paul have the same idea....I guess wise man think a like. I do believe there is a logic in it too.

    I will give it a go and see any different in pH changes...
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro William,

    Kois are Ok at pH8, unlike discus fish where it matters. Lowering down pH is easy but very difficult to maintain the ph at 7.6 if your water now reaches equilibrium at pH8. You may try taking out all the corals as lime from your new pond acts like corals to buffer. Problem is you don't know when you need it down the road. You can feed more, to generate acidic condition , also you can drip in some clear vinegar to drop the pH. This way can get hard water (good for sumi ??) without the high pH. :-? Have you tested your source water ?

    Comments:

    Taken from Wiki on behaviour of CaCO3 ( shell/coral material)
    "decreasing the pH from 8 to 7 increases the maximum Ca2+ concentration by a factor 100. Water with a pH maintained to 7 can dissolve up to 15.9 mg/L of CaCO3. This explains the high Ca2+ concentration in some mineral waters with pH close to 7.
    note that the Ca2+ concentration of the previous table is recovered for pH = 8.27
    keeping the pH to 7.4 in a swimming pool (which gives optimum HClO/ClO− ratio in the case of "chlorine" maintenance) results in a maximum Ca2+ concentration of 1010 mg/L. This means that successive cycles of water evaporation and partial renewing may result in a very hard water before CaCO3 precipitates (water with a Ca2+ concentration above 120 mg/L is considered very hard). Addition of a calcium sequestering agent or complete renewing of the water will solve the problem. "

    ts
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro ts thank you for the information posted.

    The last I test the source water pH, it can range from 8 to 10. I think I have to recalibrate my pH meter to make sure the measurement are accurate.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    pH meter can be very unreliable. There is need to calibrate frequently esp if you measure extremes ie acidic to alkaline. Also better to do a 2 point calibration if you measure extremes like from 8 to 10 @-) . Nowadays i use normal off the shelf tester to double check on reading.

    ts
  • ikankoikauikankoikau October 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Lau, I stop using digital PH meter coz couldn't find the calibration solution. Where can u buy it in KL? Thanks.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    I think it is company specific. mine is Hanna brand, the company is in Sunway. You could try google your make.

    ts
  • raymond_ongraymond_ong October 2011
    Posts: 90
    Capt Borman, Bro lauts, i also need to source for calibration solution. Was wondering wether can we use sterilized water such as battery water or steam water dropping from boiling water? Theoritically, they are pure water, by pH should be 7.0 right?
  • ShukriShukri October 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    I still use the SERA solution for pH tester.........not the best of way but it as good as it gets for such purpose, and the reading is in the ball park.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • PH8PH8 October 2011
    Posts: 683
    Use RO (reverse osmosis) water and calibrate to 7.0, will be OK. My house has RO water, so it's easy.
  • lautslauts October 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Raymond, Capt,

    Why i say maybe make specific is , i just press the calibrate button then put into calibration solution, it will detect pH7.06 something then within 1 minute will beep and i press button to accept . Then i am done. Unless i do a 2 point calibration then continue the step. So using other solutions even if pH ok may not work? Not sure.

    ts

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