Help needed for Parking Showa!
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Hi Guys,
    For 3 weeks with little appitite, my Showa isolated himself away from the rest with clamped fins.
    Takes only sinking pellets that are in front of him.

    No red fins or pinkish tone on his body..."just stone" with little or no movement...
    Have checked my water parameters, nothing wrong.
    Water replaced 10-20% daily

    Have treated the entire pond with Dimilin and PP, still no improvement.

    The rest are always busy eattting, while he just isolated one corner...

    Please help me.

    Jerome Ng

  • FPSooFPSoo October 2010
    Posts: 370
    Hi Snowlion,

    Have you bowl the fish and turn it around and check if there is any sign of sickness under the belly? Sometimes the fish has develop some ulcers or bacteria infections and hidden underneath where you couldn't see from top down. Once you turn it around, you might see something and treat them accordingly. Check it out...

    If you find nothing, it would be best you take it our and isolate the fish in a canvas tank or any tank and I would advise you to put in 0.5g/ton salt with lots of aeration and don't feed the fish for at least 1 week.

    FP
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Jerome,
    I second the recommendation by bro Soo.......the at least 0.5% salt will do wonders.

    Regards,
    Shukri
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • etanoetano October 2010
    Posts: 471
    Jerome, what changes did you do to your pond recently? If external treatment doesn't help then try injecting broad spectrum antibiotic.
    MyKoiKichi.com ~ A new koi blog.
  • DanleeDanlee October 2010
    Posts: 694
    Bro Jerome,

    Since only only one koi is affected, I think you should inject broad spetrum antibiotic to that koi instead of treating the whole pond. Did you introduce any new koi recently?
  • AndySittAndySitt October 2010
    Posts: 560
    Yes Bro Jerome, wide spectrum antibiotics is the way to go.. Almost every expert says the same but has anyone had any success with antibiotics on sinking disease. My record of treating sinking disease is 100% - failure that is...
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    The trick here is to identify the problem at an early stage. I have cured 3 of my kois. In my observation sinking disease occurs in the bigger kois. I injected them with Ciprofloxacin for 3 consecutive days, and that did the trick. Try to use Ciprobay 100 instead of 200, 400 or 500. Why? We need the volume of the solution to be administered. Else, it is too concentrated. This only my personal opinion.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Very touched to see all Brudders who came forward with advises and experiences.

    I did turn him over to inspect for any abnormalities, but found none.

    Thought that some foreign object went into his mouth, check inside..pressed his abdomen area and found nothing....

    I could not take it anymore, brought him to my dealer yesterday evening.

    We found his gills dark red and mouth passage rather narrow for his size.
    (This Showa is 58cm and not full 24 months old, he is raised at previous owner Tosai-pond under heavy feeding regime.)

    Excessive pumping has blown up this guy to 58cm, his organs could not catch with this speed. Thus explains the narrow mouth passage...

    His low appietite explains that he is slowly doing self healing.....if he continues to whack like before, sure die in matter of days...

    The dark red gills tells us that he is suffering for some Gill parasite infestation.
    We did a salt bath and left him at dealer's place to repeat the salt bath for next two days....

    Will update all on his progress.
    Once again a very big thank you to all Brudders and sisters here.

    Jerome




  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Like to add that my showa did not park at the bottom of the pond.
    Just remain motionless at the water surface.

    I will remember all advices brought up by all brudders.
    Thanks
    Jerome
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Good luck Jerome........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Latest update on my showa.

    Brought back my guy last thursday.
    Has improved alot, no more parking at water surface.

    Resumed feeding but not aggressive.
    Activity level has increased...more relief now.

    He got daily salt bath at Dealer place to clean up his gills for 4 days.
    The mal-function of the gills could have caused his lethagic behaviour.

    Great that he has recovered.
    Thanks for all concerns from everyone here.

    Jerome
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Jerome, glad that the Showa has recovered......will you be participaing in the upcoming Shinkokai?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • AaronGohAaronGoh October 2010
    Posts: 110
    Bro Jerome, You are a lucky guy, glad to hear good news.......
    Aaron
    +60123182002
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Abg Shukri,
    Thanks, not too sure if my fishes are good enough to meet the qualifying....

    Brudder Aaron,
    Thanks and Yes I know I am lucky. More luck needed again...

    Another Problem has surfaced, one sanke with reddish head. Just brought her back from Dealer 3 weeks ago.

    She is my avatar, a Maruten head pattern, the whole shiroji part turn reddish yesterday morning.

    Was told by dealer that it could be bacteria attack or bruised head, I inspected her mouth and found no swelling.

    Immediately I did a 70% water change and treat for with Acriflavin and Anti-micro paraistes. Added 6kg of salt to my 10 tonne pond.

    Other than reddish head, she does not appear stressed.
    Will pay her a visit after work today.

    Will update all!
    Thanks
    Jerome
  • AndySittAndySitt October 2010
    Posts: 560
    bro you add 6kg or 60kg of salt? 6kg to 10 ton will make your salinity 0.06 woh... Not enough to kill anything...
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Brudder Andy,

    I put 6kg of salt at 2 tonnes of water level, not when 10tonnes full.

    My pond is slow filling types as ground water was piped in from forest at theback of my parents place.

    Jerome
  • koifankoifan October 2010
    Posts: 59
    Hi Bro Jerome,

    Try treating your Maruten with S1 at 0.5% salt. Use a quarantine tank if possible. I think your fish is having both internal and external bacteria diseases.

    Before you start the above treatment, check for the possibility of fluke. If there is, treat that first. I had a bad experience with dealer's pond before. Initial signs may show bacteria attack. But it was actually caused by fluke infestation, which lead to bacteria developing.

    If its fluke, you may have to resort to praziquantel.

    All the best bro.


    Seng Choon
    Post edited by koifan at 2010-10-18 02:50:20 am
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Hi Brudder Seng Choon,

    Regret that I did not grab a bottle of S1 last trip.
    Got to make do with what ever i can get here for fluke.

    The Ani-Micro Parasite solution has the same colour as S1, but use only 2ml per tonne.
    I do not have a micro-scope at home, ony at work.

    See what I can do....
    Thanks again

    Jerome
  • cookcpucookcpu October 2010
    Posts: 462
    S1 can be bought at Seaview at seletar farmway1.
  • AndySittAndySitt October 2010
    Posts: 560
    Bro I used a lot of S1.. and I know people who are regular S1 user.. A Professor in Malaysia specializing in fishery strongly advise against the use of S1 and Malachite Green. I guess some season koi kichi can contribute on this area..
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Brother William,
    Thanks for the tip. will check Seaview out.

    Brother Andy,
    Melachite Green is know to cause sperm count issue and cancerous......someone told me.
    Yes, there must be reasons for the strong opposition by this Professor....

    Anyone has experience with the whole head red like blood clot?

    Thanks
    Jerome
  • AndySittAndySitt October 2010
    Posts: 560
    Well I wonder if S1 have Malachite green? Any idea?
  • M_ZAINM_ZAIN October 2010
    Posts: 209
    Dear Bros,

    I personally don't use S1 at All but I use lots of Malachite Green, I feel MG is Safer & it'll now last more then 6 hrs in the Pond.

    MG'll Clear up very Fast, Even Quaranteen I use MG.
    Regards,

    M. Zain
    +6019 333 3675
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Can we have a look at the picture of the koi's head?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • koifankoifan October 2010
    Posts: 59
    Hi Bro Jerome,

    I had similar experience where the whole head of the fish is red like blood clot. After that it spread thorughout the body of the fish. It is actually internal bacteria infestation. Most of the time this is common when you have fish returning from mud pond. One possible cause is fluke, another is gradual internal bacteria developing in the fish.

    My advice is that you treat it fast. It is infectious and can spread to other fishes. S1 may not treat it properly. Best is you get internal bacteria med e.g. Ocean Free Internal Bacteria for Koi.

    Bro, my advice is that you need to act fast.


    Cheers,





    Post edited by koifan at 2010-10-18 11:46:27 am
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Jerome,
    Take this seriously as both Seng Choon and I have seen quality and expensive kois kicked the bucket. Several ways that you can treat this.
    As for my case, I injected my koi with Ciprobay for 3 consective days and my koi was healed from the internal bacteria infection. But the primary infection which we have highly suspected that it was due or partly caused by Flukes, and this need to be taken care as well. I would recommend praziquantel, but nevertheless, other medications are OK too.....

    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-10-18 11:53:10 am
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Brother Shukri, Seng Choon and all others,

    Thank you very much for your advices and kind thoughts.
    I went to see my baby this evening.
    She is much better, the redness has subsided, more actively searching for food.
    Have not fed them since Sunday morning.

    As advised by dealer to do 10% water change and remedicate with Acriflavin and anti-parasite solution (green like S1).

    The drugs that you mentioned, are not easy to get in Singapore.
    I regret that getting them during my last trip.

    I will see my baby again tomorrow evening, and if redness not gone i will bring her down to dealer's hospital.

    On second thought, I better bring her in for consultation.

    Thanks again for all kind thoughts
    Jerome

  • koifankoifan October 2010
    Posts: 59
    Bro,

    Another medicine you can use is the Blangdon Anti Ulcer (formerly known as Interpet Anti Ulcer).

    I think this would be the most ideal medicine as it can treat both fluke and internal bacteria together due to its formulation which has formalin and internal bacteria medicine. However, due to the formalin content, you need to make sure that your water has less than 0.1% salt. Otherwise, it will kick the bucket.

    Hope you can solve you problem fast.

    Take care bro.
  • M_ZAINM_ZAIN October 2010
    Posts: 209
    Bro Koifan,

    To my knowledge, anything that has Formalin Content, best is to have 0.0% Salt.

    Formalin with Salt is the most Lethal Weapon that would sent Kois back to Japan.....^_^

    PP with Salt is actually not as Lethal as Formalin with Salt.
    Regards,

    M. Zain
    +6019 333 3675
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    In theory, it is true that at best it is 0.0% salt, but Seng Choon and I did a little study with trial and error.............1% salt OK lor...........(I meant 0.1% salt)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-10-19 05:52:57 am
  • JamesJames October 2010
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Shukri,

    1% salt, or 0.1%??
  • ShukriShukri October 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Typo error...................0.1% salt
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • koifankoifan October 2010
    Posts: 59
    Bro Zain,

    Everyone know what is IDEAL. But in life, there is no IDEAL situation. It only exist in textbook. Furthermore, there is no way you can bring salt level to 0.0% in a single water change, unless you change the ENTIRE water in your pond. So for practical reasons, 0.1% salt and less is acceptable.

    I have tried my fishes at 0.10% to 0.15% also and the fishes survived. But that's living a little dangerously on the edge. So best advice is to bring it below 0.1%.
    Post edited by koifan at 2010-10-19 06:56:20 am
  • snowlionsnowlion October 2010
    Posts: 248
    Saw my baby this evening.
    Thank God, she has recovered.

    The redness on her head has subsided.
    I did a 15% water change and remedicated with Acriflavin.

    Thanks for all your kind thoughts and emotional support.
    Jerome
  • M_ZAINM_ZAIN October 2010
    Posts: 209
    ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
    Regards,

    M. Zain
    +6019 333 3675
    Post edited by M_ZAIN at 2010-10-19 10:41:07 am

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