pH Value in quarantine tank
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, all.

    I am a newbie in koi keeping. Just joined this forum recently...

    May I know is the pH value important in the quarantine tank ?

    Cheers
    mc
  • AnuarAnuar May 2011
    Posts: 688
    Bro MC,

    Coincidently I just went through this phase. Lost 7-8 pcs of kois in my qt, I had initially thought that it was due to the sickness that they carried along to the qt and/or the water parameters, but wasn't sure which one.

    Only recently I added an external filter to add on to the existing filter for the qt, the water became odorless and the clarity improved significantly and coincidently I had also recently bought a digital ph tester. To my horror, the ph read 5.0. Which explained the death previously or it could be some combinations.

    I had since added some oyster shells and added 50gm of baking soda to my 400+ liter qt, the ph read 7.5 and remained at 7.5 a week later.

    In short, ph is very very important. I regret for having neglected this parameter for the past 3 yrs.

  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro Anuar,

    Thanks for sharing your experience with me. It does help lots. I think I have to add some baking soda to my qt tomorrow.

    I was actually thinking pH value was only important in main pond as qt is small and the kois will only stay in qt for a short while.

    About bringing up the pH in water, 50gm to 400+ litre qt, is it a standard measurement ?

    Bro Anuar, sorry that I have used a username which is misleading, I am not a gentleman.. :)

    Cheers
    Mabel
    Post edited by Chico at 2011-05-06 05:27:37 pm
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro Anuar,

    Feel sorry for your lost... :-(

    Mabel
  • JamesJames May 2011
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro anuar, how on earth did the ph get so low? No water change or was it the rain??
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro James,

    If rainning, does water change alone can solve the low pH problem ?

  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    hi Mabel. are you the Chico that commented on Paul Hooi's youtube page?
    anyways, in term's of pH, koi prefer pH around 7.0 - 7.8 i believe. YES pH is very important especially if your pond is small (like mine) or you use a fiberglass tank as pH in these smaller volume's of water are more likely to change. :)
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • boykoiboykoi May 2011
    Posts: 186
    PH is important, the smaller the pond size, the most likely fatal since surface area in volume is a factor in fluctuating PH and Temperature, ammonia et all. Unlike in big ponds, volume allows a gradual effect on the water, small QT's like mine are much more prone.

    i had same problem but with a higher PH of 8.2 on my QT. added vinegar and went to 7.6 PH. add baking soda, specially when raining.
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, ChengAun.

    Yes, I am the one who visited Mr Paul's youtube page... :)

    I have a small pond too. Due to heavy rain for the past one week, my newly bought kois has flashing and parking problem. I think my pond was having low pH. As advised by one of the member, I have transferred them out and quanrantined them in a smaller qt. Last night realised the pH in the qt was slightly low.

    Hi, boykoi.

    Which type of vinegar you are using ? Those we use for cooking ?

    Thank you ChengAun and boykoi for the feedback ! :)
    Post edited by Chico at 2011-05-06 10:25:16 pm
  • AnuarAnuar May 2011
    Posts: 688
    Bro MC,

    When my kois were sick and transferred to the qt, they were given all the necessary treatment, i.e. antibiotic jabs, and all the medication that you can think of. But I guess there is no point of doing all these if the key parameter is out. So in short, I don't see a point of putting sick kois into a worst environment despite the treatment. On the baking soda dosage, sorry I have no idea. Just went to the nearby store and grabbed a 100 gm tub. Used half, diluted into water and poured into the qt. Was planning to check the following morning and add if necessary but surprised to see the ph went up to 7.5. Anyway, the ph read 7.2 today (7.5 was a week ago). Will continue to monitor. The qt now houses a few small tosais because they did not thrive in the main pond.

    Bro James,

    No idea how it went that low, but it was actually the first time ever since I started the hobby that I measured the ph. The main pond reads 7.00, and I am nervous about it. Just added another 10kg of oyster shells into the chamber.

    Rain is not the only reason, if you see Bro David's shaded pond, you see tons of oyster shells.

    Regards.
  • DAVIDSOONDAVIDSOON May 2011
    Posts: 262
    Brother Anuar ,

    Basic thumb rule : Overstocking , over feeding can increase nitrate and phosphate for an undersize filteration and this alone can bring down pH level pretty fast and turn the water acidic . Baking Soda is only a temporary solution to a crush , but it can bring a big swing and it's still an issue if water swing too drastic in a short time frame . Daily water change do help bring basic water parameter to a healthy baseline everyday .

    Oyster / cockle shells provide the carbonate to buffer the pH from crushing . It bring back water to akaline level when ph of water goes below 6.5 level .... that's when the bio bacteria starts chewing more on the shells to create more buffer . It's a natural bacteria process . This is how our chamber bacteria can help during long extended rainy season ... not just shaving of shells by flowing water .....

    David
    The Best is Yet to Come .
    Post edited by DAVIDSOON at 2011-05-07 06:45:59 am
  • JamesJames May 2011
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Anuar, I find the effect of oyster shells slow and when the situation is critical, it could be better to add some corals. Of course they shd b removed once pH is under control.

    Mabel, water change can solve the problem but for smaller ponds, the water change may not be as frequent or as plentiful as the rain. So best still to have good buffers. I believe your water is blurry when the water turns acidic right?
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro James,

    Yes, you are right. My pond water was blurry when the water turned acidic. I was not aware of this and thought that it was the sand and dust which caused the blurry water.

    Mabel
    Post edited by Chico at 2011-05-07 06:45:49 pm
  • JamesJames May 2011
    Posts: 1,964
    Hi Mabel, I had this experience a couple of times in my old pond when it was 7 tons. But my problem is quite quickly solved as I use to have to wash and change 50% water every 5 days. Using oyster shells for this situation is way too slow.
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Oyster shells have too slow an effect when you ALREADY have a pH crash. A crash below 6.5 would be worrying, and below 5.5 may start being fatal for fish. Ideally, pH for koi should be between 7.3 and 7.8, although they still do OK within the wider range of 6.8 to 8.5.

    If you are currently having a pH crash, adding baking soda will be a good fast remedy. But add it bit by bit, enough to raise pH by maybe 0.2-0.3 per day. Because koi feel stressed by too sudden movements in pH, even if in a favourable direction. If enough baking soda is used, pH will eventually be brought up to 8.3 and stabilise there (it will not go any higher). But we should stop within the 7.3-7.8 range anyway.

    The point about oyster shells is that if enough have already been incorporated into the filtration system, pH crashes are unlikely to happen (and therefore the need to use baking soda will never be there), unless it is a very shallow pond which is not sheltered from rain, and there was very heavy rainfall. So oyster shells are a case of prevention rather than cure.

    Btw, Mabel, welcome to the forum. It is indeed rare for us to see hobbyists of the fairer sex, and we hope to hear more from you here! :)

    Ps. We koi hobbyists totally LOVE females!! :-D Some (like me) almost to the point of obsession. :p
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-05-09 05:42:38 am
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, James.

    Thank you for the advise . Think I will have to bear with the pH problem quite often as I am having a small pond.

    Btw, Changing 50% of water at one time, isn't it too drastic for the koi ?

    Mabel :)
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Paul.

    Thank you for your helpful advise. :) Do learn so much from all the sifus in this forum.

    And also thank you for your encouragement. I was thinking this forum is a "No Woman's Land"... :p and was hesitate if I should be here.

    Well, hope all the sifus here will bear with all my "stupid" questions and give me advises as I am still a newbie in koi keeping.

    Mabel

  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Dear all,

    I am very happy to announce that my 3 kois are totally recovered from flashing and parking problem after quanrantined in the qt for a week. They are treated with 0.3% salt and S1 with 10% water change every day. They are back to the pond today and looking happy and healthy.

    Thank you to all of you who have given me so much advises.

    Mabel :)
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro Paul,

    Quote : "Ps. We koi hobbyists totally LOVE females!! :D Some (like me) almost to the point of obsession. :P "

    You actually mean Female Koi... :p

    Mabel
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Er yes....of course! :-D
  • JamesJames May 2011
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Paul, come on don't be shy! U can admit that you love females of the human kind too.
  • lautslauts May 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    I think if you have a pH crash to level 6 or lower , don't worry abt the shock of increasing the pH rapidly. Your kois will suffer longer in acidic water if you add little by little. Just dump in the bicarbs asap. I had two bad episodes of pH drop as my pond is unsheltered from rain. pH dropped below 6 , thinking it was parasites they suffered a day until the shock i had taking pH reading. The kois was back to normal within 24 hours after dumping in few kg of bicarbs to up the pH to 7.6. There is corresponding pH increase to amount of bicarbs added.
    Now with more than 200kg of oysters and corals , pH has been very stable without the need of bicarbs. Actually pH drop occurs not only from rain but also more from koi respiration , waste and biofilter activity , another reason for necessary water change.

    :) :)
    ts
  • AnuarAnuar May 2011
    Posts: 688
    I realized that I have addressed Sis Mabel wrongly, saw Bro Paul's note and relooked back at previous posts, my apology. Anyway, welcome to the forum.

    Bro David, thanks for the explanation. Explains why you have crates of buffer in your shaded pond. Didn't know that the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle contribute to the ph fluctuations.

    Bro Lau, wow adding soda bicarbonate by the kilos eh? Do they actually sell them in kilos?
    I think I should add more shells. Right now I only have about 20 kg in my <9tonne pond.
  • heng84heng84 May 2011
    Posts: 77
    walau, bro lauts 200kgs of shells!! ur pond must be huge .. my pond 15tonne how much oyster shell do i need?? and when do i need it? i check my ph one week once still at the range of (ph 8).. my pond is 4months old.. concrete pond. i went atarikoi and he say at the moment i dont need.. but its abit worrying since my pond is not only unsheltered but all the rainwater collected from the roof goes to the pond.
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    come on uncle Paul, we all know that u prefer human females more than female kois! :-D
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Tategoi CA, how come you seem to know me so well wor? Well, there are things we can do to female koi but not to female humans (eg scold them!! :-D). But there are also things we can do to female humans which we cannot do to female koi. Go figure... :p

    Mabel, we're just kidding around. Nothing meant to be sexist or anything like that at all.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau May 2011
    Posts: 1,053
    Seniorita Mabel,
    Welcome to the forum! I hope you will get use to the brudders here in this forum. When we talk about this hobby, chances are we always got mixed up between female and female koi.

    Back to PH topic, one of the easiest way to bring up the PH level is thru water change. I prefer to take this step as it will kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The smaller the pond, the faster it gets affected by acidic rain. But it is easier to to bring up the PH too with partial water change. For bigger pond, it is q difficult for the PH to swing down drastically so partial water change will bring the PH up slowly. Depending on how much your pond is shaded but like mine(100% open for rain/ 70% shaded for sunlight), 10-15% is sufficient enough.

    A good Q to do a water change after or during rain, your kois start flashing more than usual. But for small pond ESP when it gets water collected from the roof, bicarbonate is good to hv on standby. I only use it once so far. For my pond(33T), I only use around 30kg of oyster shells. Placement of oyster shells is also important. Make sure if possible, all water passing thru it.
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2011-05-11 12:12:07 am
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Good morning Bro Paul,

    Now I know why seldom see lady members in the forum, you all scare them away... :p (I am just joking).

    Happy to say that do learn lots from all of you. ;;)

    Bro Anuar, lauts, heng84, David, James, CA,

    Nice to meet you all here and thanks for sharing your experinces with me.


    Mabel
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Bro ikankoikau. (Sorry to address you this way as I don't know your name..)

    My pond is more or less same as yours (100% open for rain and 70% shaed from sunlight). However, the size is much more smaller than yours...haha...I have almost lost my kois due to the heavy rain fall recently.

    So, conclusion from all the sifus' experinces when dealing with low pH water in pond is :-

    1) Good Quantity of Water change;
    2) Place addequate amount of oyster shells in the filter;
    3) Adding sodium bicarbonate...

    Mabel :)
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Good morning Mabel. Regarding the 3 points you listed,
    1. 5-10% daily water change is always good as a matter of habit, regardless of whether you are having a pH crash or not. Daily water changes, especially if done by backflushing filter chambers, always helps to get rid of fish pooh on a timely basis and brings water parameters back to baseline levels by diluting the toxin levels within the water.
    2. Incorporating oyster shells as a permanent part of your filter set up will help stabilise the pH in your system. The senior hobbyists typically use something like 2-4kg of oyster shells per ton of water.
    3. In the unlikely event that despite 1 and 2, you still have a pH crash, then use the baking soda. Quite unlikely that you will need it, I think, but no harm having some on standby just in case.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-05-10 06:20:55 pm
  • JamesJames May 2011
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Paul, I only use 20kg of oyster shells for my pond, but find it is quite sufficient due to water change.

    Sis Mabel, CA is only a little bro. Also rain doesn't always cause pH to go down because when it rains frequently, you find that rain water is less acidic. My pond was and still is 100% exposed with excess water from roof tiles too.
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    really, just scold? not any other "movements"? :p
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Rain water can be as acidic as pH 4.0. The problem can get worse if the pond receives rain water from roofing, as the water catchment area multiplies several times. In the past, I had my pH plummet from 7.3 to 6.2 due to heavy rainfall. At that time, I was using about 20kg oyster shells for 80 tons pond and was doing daily water changes. Obviously it wasn't enough. I've bumped it up to about 80kg and it remains so even though my pond volume was subsequently reduced to 50 tons. Never had a pH crash since. Brother David uses 200kg for his 50 ton pond.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-05-11 01:06:28 am
  • cookcpucookcpu May 2011
    Posts: 462
    I don't know how many kg of oyster shells I have in my chamber. I think I have about 8 crate full of oyster shell.

    But I will always test the pH level after 1 hours of rainfall. And also I will occasionally top up the pond with tap water after the rain have stop. My tap water pH is around 8 to 9.

    So far, for this 7 month old pond there is no pH crush but sudden attack of parasite on the koi due to freak weather which cause the pond water temperature to fluctuate by a few degree within a day.
    Post edited by cookcpu at 2011-05-11 12:54:28 am
  • farikfarik May 2011
    Posts: 317
    Brudders and sis mabel,
    Rain water really did havoc to my pond, as it had cat poo,bird poo and all sorts of other things.....every now and then i had to put medication as soon as they start flashing and some develop ulcers.that was 5 yrs ago....after i installed a skylite,shadesail and diverted the water using a gutter....my kois are in peace....no more running to the koi shop for meds, there is still about 20=30% rain water that goes into the pond via the sail but doesn't cause the swing too much.i still have oyster shells about 30kg but nothing beats water change.
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    i use crystal bio which is supposed to help buffer ph. i don't know if thisis true but my pH has been very stable at 7.6 -7.7 all the time. But i also use shade( with a tree)
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • rimba_koirimba_koi May 2011
    Posts: 22
    Good day CA. Crystal bio is made from heating glass at a very high temperature and is therefore inert. It is basically used only as a biological media with its greater area. That's what i know..:)
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro Paul,

    Thank you for the comments. I think this discussion about ph of the pond water is very helpful to lots of newbies in koi keeping.

    Mabel :)
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Dear Bro Farik, rimba-koi, cookcpu & CA,

    Thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

    So, osyter shells does play a very important role in maintaining a balance pH in the water. Think it is a must as one of the filter medias.

    Mabel
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Tategoi CA, I also doubt Crystal Bio has any effect on pH but I cannot say for sure. Take it as a bio filter with lots of surface area. Shading does not help pH in the event of heavy rain unless the shade is waterproof and prevents most of the rain from going into the pond. It's not about the sunlight but about the acidic rain falling into the pond. I doubt a tree will help much.

    Bro Farik's point is also a really important one. One should always try to ensure that roof water does not fall into the pond. There are lots of toxins which could be on the roof, including cat pooh, bird pooh etc as Bro Farik pointed out. If the roof points at the pond, then all these toxins will be washed into the pond during rain, and cause a thousand problems in the pond. Parasites, bacteria and what not can be carried by all this.
  • lautslauts May 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    What Paul mentioned on the 3 points makes perfect sense to maintain your pond pH. Water change to take care of waste buildup driving down pH. Oyster/corals to buffer for any sudden pH downswing and IF necessary top up after heavy rainfall with bicarbs. You can get bicarbs from baking supply shops by the kilos. Also some chemical suppliers sells them too. I find 2kg of oyster/corals per ton water to be sufficient to maintain your pH at abt 7.4-7.6 if your filters are clean and water change at least 5%. At 4kg per ton now pH is 7.6-7.8 , which i am more comfortable with an expose to rain pond. The corals i am using is at size 30 , new type the size of half normal fist size from Arowana. More affordable at big qty. Bro IKK mentioned location of oyster/corals is important, you want the water to flow over, thru it . Nice to have a lady in the forum ;-) ;-)

    ts
  • ShukriShukri May 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    I do not have a preference ie female over male kois, as long as they have female like bodies........a pondan koi is very much welcome.......best of both worlds! Good body with good coloration.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Bro ts,

    Nice to meet you in this forum too.. ;;)

    Comparing osyter shells and corals, which is better ?

    Mabel
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Bro Shukri.

    So, you are saying male koi is having good coloration and female koi is having good body ?

    Mabel
  • lautslauts May 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Mabel,

    Both oyster and coral are CaCo3 but because corals has bigger surface area than oyster , i tend to think corals works better as buffers. But corals are more difficult to keep clean and as result have been blamed to cause hikui. So i would suggest if you have easy filter access then use corals and clean often. For other difficult areas use oyster , which is what i have been doing. Get the biggest grade corals you could find else use oysters. Locally, size 30 ( half fist size) corals cost RM25 for 15kg compared to oysters at RM50 per 10kg.

    ts
  • JamesJames May 2011
    Posts: 1,964
    Plus corals tend to disintegrate faster and cause a lot of sandy sediments in the filter chamber. I personally find this troublesome to clean.
  • ShukriShukri May 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi Mabel,
    As a sweeping statement, the answer is 'YES.' Normally the color of male kois are intense and deep, but the body are slender and long which is not so good a sight in our pond. If you can get a male with female bodyline, then it will be fantastic........at least from my point of view.....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • boykoiboykoi May 2011
    Posts: 186
    sorry for the late reply. its actualy plain vinegar that i use to bring down the PH level at my FG Tank. Tap water has a high PH of 8.2.Every water change i pour half a bottle at 15 minute intervals to bring PH down to 7.5-7.8 range. I also use rain water that i store up so as to save vinegarcost.

    in my case, aside from flushing the filters, i add vinegar daily as water is always at 8.5 PH after waterchange which makes the water blurry and my kois seem not so active. At a PH of 7.6, kois are more active and hungrier, and the water much more clearer
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, boykoi.
    Thanks for sharing the information. :)
    Mabel
  • boykoiboykoi May 2011
    Posts: 186
    ur welcome.PH is most important, next to temperature.along with ammonia and nitrite, these is the first thing a new set-up should take care of.hope ur kois doing ok
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, boykoi.
    Yes, my kois are doing ok now after I have read thru many discussion in this forum and also feedbacks from some of the "sifus" here...Do know now how to keep the pH steady for the pond water. The only thing which worries me is rainny day !
    Mabel
  • AnuarAnuar May 2011
    Posts: 688
    Just checked the ph at my QT and to my horror, it read 6.80. There hasn't been much rain in the past couple of days.

    If I understand correctly, the coral/shells only kick in after the ph dips to < 6.50? Is this correct? Meaning the ph can fluctuate down to below 7.00 before the buffering reaction takes place?

    To be safe, I shut down the QT. Please check your ph guys.....
  • PH8PH8 May 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Anuar, I was just having a chat with Brother David about pH during lunch today. Yes, pH can fluctuate even when there is no rainfall, and over the course of the day. Fluctuations to as low as 6.8 do not really worry him. Many factors affecting this other than rain, including feed rate, adequacy of nitrifying bacteria, water changes (and pH of incoming water) etc. Maybe a drop below 6.5 should be the starting point for worry, but I think anything below 7.0 we might need to just be a little more vigilant.
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Paul.
    If a newly set up FGT, is it more prone to have pH problem ?
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    Yes, all newly set up ponds, fgt tank or even aquariums are prone to pH, ammonia and nitrate. the pH is usually caused by rain. FGT and small ponds are definately prone to pH due to the smaller volume of water. Using oyster shells (or at the minimum, corals) will usually help prevent pH swings but to change the pH to neutral immediately, use baking soda. :)
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Thanks, ChengAun. :)
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    Sorry if I say this. Our koi can take low ph with no problem in a day or two except they get easily frieghten. Nature always try to bring things to normal (ie PH 7). To get very high or very low ph natually is difficult. Very soon it will be neutralised somehow. Of course we should be pro;active and have coral or oyster shells as buffer. Hope I dont sound too controversial.
    Post edited by Stevie at 2011-05-22 05:50:11 am
  • ChicoChico May 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Stevie.
    Are you saying when fishes are in low pH water, they will get frightened easily ?
  • AnuarAnuar May 2011
    Posts: 688
    Bro Stevie,

    Do you know if there is any "plug and play" carbon filter in the market?, i.e. just hook up to the tap or rubber hose?

    Thanks.
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    Sorry did not get to see that you were asking.

    Hi Mabel, Am not very sure but my koi are extra afraid after continuous heavy rain. My pond is 100% exposed. And they will be calm after a day back to normal.

    Hi Anuar, I don't think I come across one that can directly hook up to tap or rubber hose. The filter require some pressure to work and so I think a simple hook up might not able to take the water pressure and hold.

    You have to custom made it to make it plug and play. Tonight I migh post a drawing how you may customise it to plug and play as I made mine.
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    Hi Anuar,

    There are some carbon filter that hook up to the tap you can find in Tesco, Giant or even pasar malam. Most of it its capacity is small not suitable for us to use. The bigger one its carbon cartridge is either expensive or hard to find as most sell in a set.

    Here is some suggestion (see pix). You can choose any combination and with your own imagination there are more.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3030/carbon filter with flexi hose.jpg

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3031/carbon filter connection alternative.jpg
    Post edited by Stevie at 2011-05-28 07:55:55 pm
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    There are many types of flexi hose. These flexi hose can connect with half inch pipe with thread end just screw on and there is a "O" ring on either side that give you water tight. You can disconnect easily. You can also use the fexi hose you normally see that connect and supply water to toilet/basin which is high pressure hose. The flexi hose in the picture is shower type should use on before the stop valve otherwise it will brust under main water pressure.

    The filter hosing comes with 3/4 inch so you need a half inch to 3/4 inch male with thread nipple to connect the hosing with the flexi hose.

    As for rubber hose you got to use metal clips to secure and further tighten the connection.

    I suggest you add a float to the pond pump chamber or wherever you want to water goes so that you have no worry about overflow. With a float you cannot use the shower type flexible hose, it will brust one day sooner or later. You got to use the high pressure flexi hose. Of course this is no longer plug and play more like permenant fixture. With plug and play and rubber hose you are flexible to even fill your Q tank. I guess that's what you want.
  • AnuarAnuar May 2011
    Posts: 688
    Bro Stevie, this is much appreciated. I am not really a handy person but this looks quite doable. I am currently flushing out about 6% of water daily and fill just using rubber hose with a pinch of anti chlorine crystals. I don't plan on fixing anything permanent as I don't have the skill, really.

    Thanks.
  • farikfarik May 2011
    Posts: 317
    wow, bro stevie,
    you're really a diy guy...I'm really bad with tools...wah pipe got male/ female...how to see??
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    male pipe got something protruding out, female pipe got a big hole :-D
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    Bro Farik,

    Not only it has male and female. It also has nipple, cock, cock hole and man-hole and union, push-in or screw-on types hahaha. Like all things, for every union there has to be a male and a female either it is screw on or puch in, and which type you prefer when comes to a union you can choose hahaha. For permenent you choose push-in and the opposite is screw-on. Unfortunately there is no woman-hole or female nipple as female nipple is called socket (joint).

    Plumbing terminology comes from man as men are the plumbers. As you know naughty men will do and can do even during work. Now the man has lost to women liberalization. Man can never use some of the terms anymore sad thing, like from man-hole to work-hole, stop-cock to stop-valve or simply cock to valve or every that is cock is changed to valve. But there is no term to replace nipple, afterall nipple refering to male nipple. And male and female also have to remained it cannot be called bolt and nut as it is different.

    Ya, ChengAun is correct. Female with threads got biger hole and you need teflon to tight fit but female push on got very tight fiting as you push and cannot be taken out and is there till the end of its service :-D
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    then liquid goes through :p
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    Hi Anuar,

    Discovered a better way. Use garden hose handspray type of connection on your carbon filter housing, the connector from the tap to our garden hose and to the spray nozzle usually (see pix)
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3034/spray nozzle.png
    This two pictures show you better.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3037/connection.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3038/hose with female end.png
    What you got to do is:
    1. At the inlet of the filter housing fit with a half inch nipple with threads (see pic)
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3039/half inch nipple.jpg
    2. then screw this male connector (see pix) to the nipple, the brass one can last you a lifetime but expensive. It fits to the half inch nipple. No need to use teflon tape (the white "plastic" (telflon actually) tape) as it connector has a rubber O ring ensuring water tight. But no harm to have 5 to 10 round of the teflot tape on the male nipple so that you can screw on it easy and protect the threads.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3040/brass tap connector.jpg
    or the plastic type
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3041/tap connector plastic.jpg
    When you need to use the carbon filter just unplug the hand spray with one hand holding the rubber hose and the other hand hold the bottom part of the female connector (that attahed to the hose) and push toward the hose of ther other hand (or pushing both hands towards each other) and the spray will dislodged. To connect it to your carbon housing just push the hose female connector to the filter housing male connector and you will hear a click sound.
    See Pix. Cheers
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3042/choice connection.jpg
    Post edited by Stevie at 2011-05-29 11:01:21 pm
  • StevieStevie May 2011
    Posts: 323
    Wow ChengAun,

    You are more horny than me and powerful imagination! =D>
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2011
    Posts: 925
    everone needs a good laugh every now and then (bandit)
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • ChicoChico June 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Stevie.
    Thanks for the reply and also posting a detail pictures of carbon filters.
    :)
    Post edited by Chico at 2011-06-07 03:05:16 am
  • StevieStevie June 2011
    Posts: 323
    Hi Mabel,

    The picture is the filter housing. The carbon cartridge which is the called carbon block looks like this (see pic). The carbon block is to be inserted into the filter housing. The carbon block is black in colour. In this carbon block it is wraped with nylon and look white. If you see carefully into the fine nylon you can see it is dark black. Of course you cannot see in this picture. You can get it in Giant, Tesco or any hypermarket sold for only RM10 a piece.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3149/carbon block.jpg
    Post edited by Stevie at 2011-06-07 05:52:08 am
  • ChicoChico June 2011
    Posts: 65
    Hi, Stevie.

    Thanks for the pictures.

    Instead of using the carbon filter, can we just use only de-chlorine solution or crystal ? or just keep the water overnight before we add into the pond or tank ?
  • YamatoYamato June 2011
    Posts: 184
    Dont use vinegar. Use hydrochloric acid and that is if your PH is too high. But if it is QT do a water change, but measure your water at source , since PH of source water during rains can be low too. Check your GH too.
    Clean your QT and filters regularly, even daily if needed
  • StevieStevie June 2011
    Posts: 323
    Hi Mabel,

    Of course you can use the dechlorine solution and crystal or keep water overnight and also carbon block/filter. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

    1. The solution is a little more expensive than crystal and we never know its concentration since the solution looks exactly like water. Why it is a little more expensive is because it has to be bottled and take up space for storage and transportation costs added. Since it is a "cheap" product and need no worry about contaimination it is usually not sealed. So you never know if the bottle has been used half and refiled with water. You can never trust traders or aquarium shopkeepers as they also use anti chlorine everyday for thier displays and water change. Solution will be my last choice.

    2. For ease of use, the solution and crystal are of the same. When doing water change just throw the crystals/solution into the pond or where the tap water is filling. But say if it take hours or half a day to fill should you add the crystal at the beginning or every one hour intervals? That's extra job and you might forget till the water is fully filled. And another problem is how do you know if you over use or under dosage? Added to that our tap water chlorine concentration is never the same all the times.

    3. Keeping the water overnight is the cheapest and the safest of all. You got to have a big container or can use your QT. But for huge volume you got to aerate it with air pump or a water pump to create waterfall so as to remove the chlorine within 6-12 hrs. Still you can keep the water for 2 days without aeration and most if not all the chlorine will be evaporated. But there is still this more stable compound called chloramines instead of chlorine that is used in our tap water for disinfection. It may take 4 days to completely removing cholramines and it is best to be exposed to strong sunlight for at least 3 hrs. The crystal will also remove cholramines. If i have a big container i would use rain water instead when rain is available. After few days the rain water will be at ph7. Filter it or use the middle water by connecting the tank with a tap/outlet at 6 inches from the bottom of the tank.

    4. Activated carbon block is the easiest to manage. You need not have to bother how much water is being replace. Just leave the water running thru the filter. No overdosage or under dosage. You can safely drink the tap water filtered with activated carbon block. Just make sure you turn on the tap and let it run for 1 minute before you drink it. The beginning may contain some bateria in the filter itself when it is not often (everyday) used. To know if the filter is still effective take a slip of the water. You may not need to drink if you are worry about bacteria or chlorine. Just leave it in your mouth you can feel the present of chlorine taste and/or its smell from the drinking glass and spit it out. Or simply do a chlorine test and again let the water run for a minute before testing.

    I hope this help after a lengthy writing to bore you down.
  • lautslauts June 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Stevie,

    Antichlorine solutions , the better ones ( like those by AP or Hagen) contain EDTA. These are used to treat heavy metals in tap water , another reason why more expensive. The usage concentration are accurately mentioned clearly unlike the crystal type. Keeping water overnight is not sufficient to rid of chlorine , as you rightfully mentioned you need to unsure some aeration and water movement. Most have water tanks to store water , the water even days old still contains chlorine to kill . I have learned the hard way, " tangki" water is not safe for fish.
    Rather than go thro so much to ensure safe water and risk koi , i use AP's "Tap water conditioner" at RM140 for 1US gal. Enough to treat 300,000 litre , will last many months for even large ponds. If your pond filling takes longer than 1 hour , to ensure even ditribution of antichlorine , use a drip.

    ts

  • StevieStevie June 2011
    Posts: 323
    TS,

    Use a drip. Great idea =D> With crystal, any idea?

    Your tap water conditioner, 1 gal (RM140) to 300 ton. It means 13ml to a ton. (using 4 litre to a gal). 47 sen a ton. That is cheap.

    With activated carbon, RM10 a piece for 6000 gal (24,000 litre). or 42 sen a ton. Very close.

    Our tap water costs RM1 for every ton (averagely). That means conditioning our tap water for pond water replacement costs us RM1.45 a ton. Our tap water is cheap but the piping distribution system in Klang Valley suck that we get brownish water some of the times.
  • lautslauts June 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Stevie,

    Just dilute the normal amt of thiosulfat crystal you would use in some pond water and let it drip into pipe water entry point to the pond ?
    Thanks for calculation , simplicity wise makes sense too. I used crystals sometime ago but the crystal quality not reliable. I met someone at koi centre sometime ago, many years keeping aquarium fish but new at koi. Kill all his pond after doing massive water change using crystal. He has kept and bred discus before so not new in keeping good water, after some discussion we came to conclusion thiosulfat quality and maybe source water chlorine level is main culprit. I stopped using crystal from then on .

    ts
  • StevieStevie June 2011
    Posts: 323
    Aiyoooooo...it is so simple...the crystal dissolves in water and becomes solution...me so so dumb... (sweat) .

    I seldom use crystal. I have spare just in case of emergency. I use activated carbon block filter. With 10 microns it filters solid too.

    stevie

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