is the new koi sick?
  • hkl84hkl84 December 2013
    Posts: 51
    i just purchased a small koi yesterday and put it into my pond. As the other kois in my pond is generally bigger than it, it seems to swim on its own and not interacting with the big boys and girls. I am wondering if this is normal? it is eating fine and could swim around. Just worried if the isolation is because of any disease or just because it needs time to adapt. I also observed that other kois seem to flash a little bit.
  • russellrussell December 2013
    Posts: 48
    Hi,

    If its a young fish, then you MUST quarantine it for at least 3-4 weeks before introducing it to the main pond. Young fish are more susceptible than matured fish to diseases. They could be carrying disease or even parasites which may devastate your main pond.

    I have learnt this the hard way before. And if our fishes are flashing, then high chance there are parasites. Look out for other syndrome. Which country are you from?
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Russell is correct that you should firstly quarantine your newly acquired fish........

    Kois normally do not mind swimming with others bigger or smaller than they are. But smaller kois normally tend to be by themselves in the presence of bigger ones....... which is normal.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ray2kray2k December 2013
    Posts: 96
    Yah, my little 6 inch showa tends to swim away from the big ones by itself. I suppose it is to avoid being bullied or whacked accidentally.

    If it is swimming and eating well, it should not be a problem. But watch out if the fishes start to behave differently such as stop eating, showing red veins on the white parts of the skin, fins clamped and/or sleeping at the bottom of the pond. Need to medicate real quick.

    As the bros said, quarantine is important to avoid the above and spending loadsa money on medication and having sleepless nights.
  • hkl84hkl84 December 2013
    Posts: 51
    Hi, i am from KL. When i was buying the koi, the koi dealer actually told me that as long as i have recently adding in new kois into the pond, quarantine is not necessary as the fishes' immune is strong. As i added a few small fishes just last week, i thought it will be safe to exempt the quarantine. Do the sifus here agree with this tactic?
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro, who is this koi dealer that has said what you have shared??? :-D
    I too would like to ask him if I could do the same............ :-))
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2013-12-09 12:48:48 pm
  • hkl84hkl84 December 2013
    Posts: 51
    Hi, it is the boss of Atari Koi tropicana. Both the staffs and boss asked me the same question and when heard that i have recently put new fish in, they said no need to quarantine. According to them, even if the fish carries parasite also the effect will be minor to the old fishes, won't kena kao kao. But they did do a bath for the small fish that i purchased.
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    hkl84,
    If you talk to different people, I believe in one way or another, the advices will differ.

    I would like to share with you an analogy e.g. that someone visited me many years ago. Apparently, he was suffering from a flu come sore eyes and a bad cough. A week after that my household occupant suffered as follows; I was down with the flu with cough but no sore eyes. My wife was only down with a flu but no sore yes and no coughing. However, my daughter was down with the flu, with sore eyes and constant coughing. But my son was not sick at all, because he has contracted the bugs earlier when he was away in Malacca. Now, lets look at the pond scenario........... For someone that has a collection of priced kois and show quality kois, not quarantining new acquired kois would not be the best of practices.... Food for thought!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • idrisidris December 2013
    Posts: 1,182
    i also did not quarantine my new koi...but what i did is new koi i short bath with PP or kenkona...then put in the main pond..after that i kenkona whole pond...but there are many way to quarantine..although with strict quarantine procedure people can get bad problem also...no harm to be extra precaution...
  • hkl84hkl84 December 2013
    Posts: 51
    Bro Idris, if dosing the whole pond isn't that we are killing off all good bacterias in the pond? Besides, previously i got koi flashing problem and would like to use kenkona, but another dealer actually advise me not to use it because it is dangerous and could easily do more harm than good. End up i used SS1, SS2 and a bunch of other stuffs but the kois flash still (1 dead). In the end i just close my eyes and refuse to do any more treatment and hope the kois will heal themselves. Luckily the rest of them get it though though.
  • idrisidris December 2013
    Posts: 1,182
    i have been using for almost 2 years now...im not going to debate on kenkona ability but what i can say it work well for me and for many others too...the only thing u need to carefull when using kenkona is to properly calculate the dosage for you pond volume..its concentrated that why it only need little amount to medicate big pond...

    please share with us your pond volume..we can help from here...many of us has gone through what you dealing now bro...dont wory...
  • hkl84hkl84 December 2013
    Posts: 51
    My pond size is 4.5 tonne. I measure the length and width and made some assumption as it is not of regular shape. But it should not be running far from there though. Maybe is because of this that they recommend me not to use.
  • idrisidris December 2013
    Posts: 1,182
    based on 4,5 ton you should use 75ml of kenkona...off ur uv light...the next day after you medicate change 20% of your water...before i forget, do not have salt in your pond...it will not work when this two mix together...try the link below...im not a dealer of this but what i can say it save me a lot.. : )

    http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/p/usage-instruction.html
  • ray2kray2k December 2013
    Posts: 96
    Personally, I quarantine in a separate tank. Because of laziness, I usually end up leaving them there for a couple of months at least. In the meantime, water changes every week, salt and sometimes S2.

    Then I use Remedor on the pond when they go in and follow it up with Biozyme or Pond Plus on the filter a few days later.

    So far so good.

    Introducing new fish straight into a pond is a bit of a lottery. Lucky, no trouble happens. Unlucky, some die. Really unlucky, the whole pond goes. Worth the risk? Up to you. Everyone has different risk appetites.
  • JamesJames December 2013
    Posts: 1,964
    OMG, the things dealers can say!!! Kois getting sick is not just about immunity. Is about a disequilibrium of good and bad pathogens in the water caused by a new introduction.

    Just like a perfectly healthy person could just sneeze when he smells pepper. Some may stop at one sneeze. Others could be sneezing the whole day on!
  • koiBoykoiBoy December 2013
    Posts: 151
    Hi bro hkl84,

    Sorry for interrupting(also deviating abit) but I think this might help in the near future.

    I think when people say 'quarantine' many don't really get the meaning of it. One very frequent thing people do while quarantine the fish is to have another tub, or a small tank just to keep the fish inside to separate from others. One must treat the quarantine tank like a pond just that it is saperated from the main pond. Like if the tub is too small, will the oxygen supply be enough for the number of fish BOD turnover? or how long can the water be used until it is too contaminated? or even what to do during quarantine period(medication). Sometimes wrong quarantine method(fatal) is worse than adding straight to the main pond and immediately whack 0.5-0.6% salt and S1.

    My 2 cents. Sifus please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Cheers! ;-)
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    It could be OK for the 9 out of 10 times lucky, but be wary of that one time. Could wipeout your entire collection.......... Believe me as I have been there, and let the incident only happen to me and not to the others............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • MfwleeMfwlee December 2013
    Posts: 355
    A quarantine tank like any any container for our koi, should be large enough to sustain them over a couple of months. Many of us use the blue fiberglass tanks with a filter that sits on top. Add in an aerator with stones in the tank as well as in the filter and you can then have a temporary home that will keep them happy so long as you adhere to proper stocking levels.
    As for me, I also use pieces of the filter media direct from the pond filter to try to simulate the same water / bacteria conditions.
    I have been lucky so far - my quarantine set up works, and the fellas are released into the pond after 3 - 4 months. :)
    Mike Lee
  • MfwleeMfwlee December 2013
    Posts: 355
    Nearly forgot to add - buy your new koi in batches. The quarantine ends the moment you introduce a newcomer into your quarantine tank. You simply start all over again.
    Mike Lee
  • hkl84hkl84 December 2013
    Posts: 51
    Hi bros. Thank you so much for all your comments. As of this post, i have added in 75ml of kenkona into my 4.5 tonne pond. I also turned on all pumps and fountains to make sure sufficient oxygen supply. According to the instruction, i need to wait for 3 days and then change 20% of water. So far so good.

    By the way, i would like to ask all sifus, if i add some other fishes such as gold fish or guppies into the pond. Do i need to do quarantine also?

  • lautslauts December 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro hkl84,

    Pls QT all fishes , ie kois , guppies whatever that goes into the pond water. Even the net you used elsewhere needs to be cleaned , bleached before use in pond. By putting Kenkona into the pond direct you are actually QT, the whole pond la. Easier and cheaper to just get a small QT tank , 2x4ft good enough. Good to learn lesson now than later when you get more advanced and pricier kois come to your bigger pond . :-D
    No reason to risk your collections over the years for a small koi .

    ts

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