Which one would you choose?
  • pandaipandai December 2013
    Posts: 1,083
    Two sankes. Both nisai, from a well known sanke breeder, almost similar excellent body and superb skin quality. The only difference is the sumi style... But if you could only pick one; which one would it be and why...


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  • Kelvin86Kelvin86 December 2013
    Posts: 301
    Depending on price. But to put the price aside, the lesser Sumi would be my choice because of the stronger body structure. Mind saying which farm bro?
    - Aquatic Kingdom -
  • puathiantatpuathiantat December 2013
    Posts: 127
    sumi on mouth is s big minus :O
  • sleepymansleepyman December 2013
    Posts: 102
    The one with less sumi!

    Depending on the bloodline.. sumi on sanke may grow bigger as she grows too..

    I'll surely be betting on that!

    Bro pandai.. mind PM me the dmg? thanks!
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Pandai,
    I can't choose because both are not my preferred kind of Sanke............ :-D
    But if you twist my arm, I will choose the longer of the two............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2013-12-08 12:25:39 am
  • YipmYipm December 2013
    Posts: 194
    Bro Pandai, I have to agree with our bro Sukri and since you are still there I am sure you can find better ones.
  • niveknivek December 2013
    Posts: 1,251
    Are they Matsunoske bloodline? I will choose the bigger one as well.
  • pandaipandai December 2013
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro @Kelvin86, they are from Torazo farm. Very reasonable price, hence attracted me in the first place. They are both around 50 cm or so. I think I would have chosen the lesser sumi one too. By the way that was yesterday and today, I've used up my budget on other pieces hence would probably let both of this go... :-( If anyone wants, I believe they are still available.

    Bro @phuatiantat, I believe the sumi on the mouth can be taken care of fairly easily by Dr. Shukri... ;-)

    Bro @sleepyman, will PM you.

    Bro @Shukri, mind sharing with me why they are not your preferred kind of sanke? For my learning bro. Thanks. By the way, I don't think I dare twist your arms. Your skillful hands are too valuable to me in my upcoming pond visit... :-D

    Bro @yipm, mind sharing with me on your verdict as well? Still lot to learn in sanke... :-?

    Bro @nivek, I didn't ask. Will check later if I happen to go there again. But sadly this is my last day. Going back to Yokohama back to my real life soon... :-((
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ikankoikauikankoikau December 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Pandai,

    Depending on the price and the kind of sanke you are looking for. You can send any koi for show but to have chance of winning top prize in gosanke cat, you need to look further than these two sankes.

    As for both, I would prefer the less sumi sanke mainly bcoz of the body and the kiwa & sashi quality. For good future body, ideally the widest or bulkiest part should be just after or behind the pactoral fins. But the sumi, it will take long time to appear and the sumi's quality is still in doubt. The other sanke has better sumi quality at this stage but placement of the sumis are not my preference.

    On the pattern and sumi placement, I personally will go for a sanke that has 3 colours in shoulder area and has strong bold sumi on it. This will show superior and strength. You will notice this in most champion sankes and showas.

    Regards
    IKK
  • pandaipandai December 2013
    Posts: 1,083
    Yeayyy!!! Capt. is back from hiding...! So, how was the honeymoon...? :-D

    Anyway, agree with your views. I came with the intention of looking for a high quality gosanke nisai but quickly realized that for the price of such, I could actually get a few high quality and very interesting non-gosanke nisais. So, you can guess which direction I chose at the end. ;-)

    Well... the journey of Nishikigoi keeping is indeed long and challenging but also highly rewarding... There'll be next time... In the meantime, will keep on buying tosai tikam every now and then and hoping to get lucky... Hehe...
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ikankoikauikankoikau December 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    The honeymoon was busy and tiring... :-))

    Anyway, I still read this forum every now and then. Good to know that this forum has self sustained well as many seniors and dedicated hobbyist are willing to share their knowledge and experience here. Kudos to all.

    Good Gosanke comes with heavy price tag surely. But once a while you might get a steal from the tikam tossai. Not easy but possible.
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Salam Pandai,
    Firstly, thanks for sharing...... :-D

    When we are looking at Sankes, and mostly important in Sankes are: Strategic placement of the Sumi, Tsubo Sumi and Kata Sumi. Kasane Sumi i.e. Sumi on the Beni plate is not what is preferred. So, a good and gorgeous Sankes should have some white opening at the Kata (shoulder area), and having Sumi on these white areas........... So, Kata Sumi/Tsubo Sumi here..............

    Well, some may argue that this should not be necessarily true e.g. the Terazo Sanke once own by David Soon............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2013-12-09 01:17:56 am
  • pandaipandai December 2013
    Posts: 1,083
    Understand now bro Shukri. Perhaps I should have started the post by saying that although I believe that the two kois are of good quality as far as body and skin quality, they would not have done well in shows due to their pattern. They would be good pond koi for personal enjoyment I think, provided the flaw in pattern doesn't bother you lah. For newbie like me okay la... :-D . The pattern you described would also have pushed their price sky high...

    I imagine what you described are somewhat like this:

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/14756/image.jpg

    ...or this...

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/14757/image.jpg
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri December 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Yup Pandai, precisely. But I wouldn't go to the extend to say that not having what I have said, is a flaw. I am just saying what is preferred. Nevertheless, the two Sankes that you have shared are good Sankes in terms of the other aspects............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai December 2013
    Posts: 1,083
    Here's something I picked up from the internet, for learning of others like me. Hope it helps:

    SANKE

    General Description

    'Taisho Sanshoku', or 'sanke' is the term applied to a koi that has a white body with red and black markings. The black markings are in the form of spots that are generally confined to the body above the lateral line. Sanke as a koi breed was established around 1917.

    Appreciation Criteria

    The criteria for appreciating or judging a Sanke is the same as those of a Kohaku, with the addition of criteria for its black markings. In fact, it is said that a good Sanke is actually a good Kohaku that has been further enhanced by black spots that add elegance to the totality of the koi.

    Color

    The shiro (white) base color of the body must be unblemished, thick, snowy, and even milky. The shiro must not exhibit any yellowish tint.

    The hi (red) markings on the white body must be solid, deep, and evenly-colored throughout the entire body. The edges of these markings (also known as the 'kiwa') must be very defined, or as they say, 'sharp as a razor.'

    The hi color may vary from koi to koi, but it should be of uniform hue within an individual koi. Different koi exhibit different hues, from a deep persimmon orange to dark, purplish red. This entire range is acceptable, although judges invariably have their own preferences.

    The sumi (black) markings of a Sanke must be deep, solid, and shiny lacquer-black. The shape of every sumi spot must be clearly defined, with its kiwa or edges as sharp as possible. Undeveloped sumi (also known as 'sashi') may appear mottled dark blue or gray instead of solid black. This is not bad for a young koi, since sumi actually develops as the koi grows older. In fact, spotting a potential champion at a young age involves good anticipation of how well the sumi will develop in the next few years.

    Pattern

    The red and black markings on the white body must be artistically balanced. This means that a certain color must not be confined to one side or one end of the koi only.

    The red-over-white pattern may be continuous or 'stepped', but the over-all effect of white and red balancing each other should be the ultimate consideration. Many people prefer stepped koi and understandably so, since this pattern ensures red and white alternating with each other. Sanke with a 'hi' pattern that runs continuously from head to tail is known as 'aka sanke'. Aka sanke is less desired, since the predominantly red body makes it look heavy.

    A white area separating the tail and the red marking nearest the tail is known as a tail stop, and is considered desirable. A red mark on the lips of a koi (also known as 'kuchibeni') is a 'plus' if it enhances the over-all package of the koi.

    A good sanke has a red pattern (but absolutely no black color) on the head. The head pattern must extend slightly beyond the eyes but should not reach the nose or lips, leaving a white area in the front end of the head. A fully red head (referred to as 'menkaburi') that makes the koi look 'hooded' is considered negative. Nonetheless, some koi look good despite having it, so don't let it prevent you from buying a koi that you like.

    A round patch of red on the head is considered nice. If this red patch is the only red marking on the sanke, then the koi is called a 'tancho sanke', a highly-prized koi variety among the Japanese since it looks like their national bird. If there are other red markings on the body of the koi, then the round head patch makes it a 'maruten' sanke.

    The sumi of a sanke must be distributed in the koi body such that they collectively add balance to the koi. Their presence should enhance the 'kohaku pattern' and not degrade it. Old-style sanke koi are heavily endowed with sumi. Modern sanke exhibit a sparser distribution of sumi, but these should be clearly defined and solid black nonetheless. Koi experts also prefer sumi spots that are positioned over the white body. Conversely, sumi spots over hi markings are less desirable to them.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • idrisidris December 2013
    Posts: 1,182
    bo shukri..please comment on this sanke...im not a fan of sanke neither know how to judge whether its good or not...this belong to me so apriciate if you could comment...

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/14761/sanke.jpg
    Post edited by idris at 2013-12-09 03:17:38 pm
    Attachments
    sanke.jpg 110K
  • pohbengpohbeng December 2013
    Posts: 114
    Bro Idris......this sanke of your is Nice! :-D

    It's tosai...no need to think about body, skin, etc! :">
  • JamesJames December 2013
    Posts: 1,964
    Red eyes!!! Might get more distracting as she grows.

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