Please comment on this Dainichi Showa Sanshoku from the Sakura Bloodline
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Appreciate your comments and feedback on this Showa........
    The good, the bad and the ugly.........

    Thanks.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/14461/Female Dainichi Showa 46cm.JPG
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-04-30 09:33:15 pm
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Wong, mali mali!!! Saya mau dengar you punya honest comment!!! Bukan mau dengar bodek punya komen OK! :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • HWONGHWONG November 2013
    Posts: 286
    Brother,
    You nak kena lah ini... Gua bantai, Hang jangan kesal ya?

    I guess the reason why there are no takers on Bro Shukri's invite is probably a minefield that he has set for us..kekeke. But what the heck.

    The opinion is purely As I see it now. Not whether what it will be in the future.

    The GOODs
    The pattern is a classic representation of good balance with presence of Hi on head, body and tail sections. Similarly positioned, the Sumi placement is very attractive. These color markings are well separated by shiroji.

    The presence of motoguro on the pecs although sanke like completes the showa. SHOWA, I assume that the sumi goes beyond the lateral line but these days, because of breeding practices, a showa is deemed a showa because it has the impression of the typical showa. ;-)

    The NOT SO GOODs
    However, from the photo (which can be misleading) the sumi is the charcoal type that lacks the depth unlike that of lacquer black sumi. The sumi is not "together".

    The Hi is uneven and with particular concern for the hi patch at the tail section.
    The Shiroji is appear ok
    Generally, the skin does not have the shine or TERI which gives the color a depth of field.

    Body looks symmetrical but has no volume,, so it is not imposing.

    The Pectoral fins are not roundish hence not elegant.

    Bro, this is just my opinion as I see it now. Peace Bro :)>-
  • puathiantatpuathiantat November 2013
    Posts: 127
    sumi looks weak n not powerful enough , just MHO X_X
  • grinkz01grinkz01 November 2013
    Posts: 530
    Good thing is pattern,,,hi and sumi placement is beautifully placed, traditional showa looks like.

    Bad thing is skinny body, and sumi. Pectoral fins look like a male one.....not round type.

    But since i knew ur calibre on koi selection.....i would be very glad to have this showa swimming in my pond :-D
  • niveknivek November 2013
    Posts: 1,251
    Here's my newbie take.

    Sumi and beni placement is quite balance and pleasing to the eye. Both of these will strengthen over time as she grows from 60cm onwards. Shiroji is good as well. Tail tube is strong and will continue to bulk. Currently she's still a bit on the skinny side and she's just awaiting her time to start the girth growth once she attains her length, possible upon hitting yonsai. She will continue to look ugly (size wise) right through sansai and at times will even appear to have a huge head and small body even though she eats non stop but doesn't seem to put on any girth till then.

    The only concern would be the small amount of stray beni/secondary high on the 2nd beni step.
    Post edited by nivek at 2013-11-07 11:58:57 pm
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks for the feedback guys. To me, it is a learning experience for all of us. It is only from sharing feedbacks like these that all of us will benefit. Opinions like these are vital for increasing our knowledge. When buying Tosais, even a seasoned hobbyist can make mistakes, or probably a gamble in the purchase.

    This Tosai is from Dainichi i.e. from Sakura Bloodline, a female 46cm. I do not know the male Oyagoi. Honestly, a fast grower. My concern is the Beni plates, looked awefully thin at the moment. My worry is whether the Beni will hold and hopefully consolidate with time. The Sumi is also not strong at the moment, and I just hope that it will also improve with time. It is also growing length wise, and I am hoping that the body will start bulking side ways.

    This Showa is far from ready to be put in a Show for sure. IMHO opinion, this is a gamble piece. Seriously, I am counting on the bloodline. Hopefully, an ugly duckling will turn into a Swan.................

    :-D :-))

    Thanks Bros Wong, Pua, Ming and Kevin for the feedbacks............ (Y)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2013-11-08 03:24:35 am
  • pohbengpohbeng November 2013
    Posts: 114
    Bro Shukri....this is a koi I'll try my luck also.:-D

    put into a chilled pond about 23degree...with high pH...after 4-5mths, if the sumi still dun come out....heehee..

    next better player! :">
  • sleepymansleepyman November 2013
    Posts: 102
    Big Bros here.. do allow me to give some comments...

    Body: So long! unusual for a female showa.. if she is still tosai (below 12 months), I think she has a good future to grow much bigger!

    Quality: Agree with Big Bro shukri on the thin beni plate. With attention to the shoulder portion. Just wondering if its true that beni develops from Front to back.. cuz beni on her head looks strong. Strong patch of tsubo sumi near her odome section and presence of motoguro may augur well for overall sumi development.

    Overall feel.. frankly, I dont have the confidence to bring her up... but i believe, with better husbandry and keeping skills, she can realise her potential. She certainly feels safe in your hands!
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Pob Beng, agree with you, keeping my hope going. The chiller has been off for 3 months, but only on for a few days already. I didn't think of the high pH thing, I can give it a shot. How about hard water, you think this will help also? Right now, I am banging on the Bloodline i.e. from Sakura.

    Bro Sleepyman,
    Yup, I think she is still Tosai, yup long at the moment and hopefully will bulk in the future. Hope not to wait too long though. And thanks for the encouraging words.

    I will share the future development. At the end of the day, hope that all of us will learn a thing or two........ I believe this will be a classic example whether Bloodline matters most, or otherwise. I will try my very best to see how far 'husbandry' skill matters.....

    All good advices here in this thread I will seriously consider......... :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2013-11-08 04:44:11 pm
  • lautslauts November 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Shukri,

    Dainichi Sakura i hear , then no worries on the sumi , will be solid come early sansai . Body looks very long , maybe a downside for a Sakura. Maybe has been in the dealer's place longer than necessary , also the beni very weak now for same reason. In your hand should blossom. Hope you don't mind me sharing my two Sakura , both abt 75cm both gosai now, pict taken end 2011 .
    First one is a male , note the East Msia map on head :-D
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/14470/Dainichi Tiger.JPG
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/14471/Dainichi menware.jpg

    ts
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Lauts,
    Yup I saw the Map of East Malaysia...........
    Sumi looks dark and deep. Hopefully what you have said and the example given, give me hope for the Sumi development on my Showa........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2013-11-08 04:42:47 pm
  • HDCuHDCu November 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Shukri,

    I like how long your sakura Dainichi is. I would not concern myself with the sumi for now as it is sure to darken over time. Hard to see the beni on the picture alone but there seem to be some unevenness on the shoulder. I think Beni will improve over time though.

    My main concern is that it lacks the powerful imposing look in showas while it also has a small head.



  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro HDCu,
    I had this Showa for about 5 to 6 months now. Noted on your comments. I will be monitoring the development of the Beni and the Sumi. I am really hoping that the shortcomings now, to be overcome in the future.

    I will keep everyone posted on future development........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • koiBoykoiBoy November 2013
    Posts: 151
    Bro Shukri,

    I personally find this showa interesting in a different way. Like the 2012 AJ Koi Show GC, at nissai it was very thin and had no hope of going to show, but at time passes by, things changed (bulked). I guess its a waiting game for this piece and it would be very interesting to keep us updated.

    Cheers,
    Xavier
    Post edited by koiBoy at 2013-11-08 03:27:55 pm
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks Xavier............. I will do that.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • smokersmoker November 2013
    Posts: 715
    Bro Shukri,

    To choose a tosai is really not easy, there is gamble you have to go through no matter how sharp you eyes are, and i salute you for trying Bro Shukri.

    I have no worry for the beni, as i think it's beni character of young dainichi showas. I had doubted many previously, and they proved me wrong :)

    As for the sumi, this is her parent, Sakura Dainichi, the GC of AJNS 2007, at her tender nisai age.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/14475/Sakura Dainichi Showa 52cm 2yo.jpg

    The young sumi is very similar like yours :)
    The pattern, agree with sifus here, is very interesting and eye catchy.

    It's the body that wonder me most, Bro Shukri, do you other picture from straight angle ?
    I want to see her body line and conformation, it's common for a tosai to be not bulky.
    Her body is thin now, but i have sight that this young showa has a strong backbone that will lead her to have strong body in your good husbandry.

    Bro Shukri, are you sure she is tosai ?
    spawning month is usually around may to july, if she is still tosai, her growth is really amazing, reaching 46cm in several months.
    And her birth year would be 2013.


    Post edited by smoker at 2013-11-08 08:34:28 pm
  • grinkz01grinkz01 November 2013
    Posts: 530
    Abg shukri...why u called beni is somewhat too thin now? It looks ok to me....only beni type is red ferrari which is typically hard to maintained.....this showa also having long body....maybe need longer time to bulk her?
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    My opinion Sifu
    Bad:
    1) weak beni at odome area
    2) big pectoral fin

    Gud:
    1) strong body
    2) thick tail tube
    3) interesting pattern
    4) gud Sumi placement
    5) well balance of three color
    6) gud bloodline

    Definitely a go Sifu :-D

    Hope to see her development in the future :)
  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Wahyu,
    You are correct, the Birth date is in June 2012, so a Nisai. Can't really be a Tosai. Slip of my mind. I surely hope that this Sakura of mine will some what follow the Oyagoi i.e. Sakura. For sure I will be sharing with all of you here on the development. Lets see whether Bloodline has a lot to say in a koi's development.

    Bro Ming, thanks for your insights as well.

    And TK, (Y) that you come out to chip in, giving your feedback about this Showa. It will be a learning exercise for all of us. To me, I really want to know what to really expect of a Tosai......... I understand that breeders seldom make mistakes! I wonder, how many good and potential Tosais escape their lurking eyes........... Is it 1%, 5% or 0.1%??? I believe we have a chance with Shiros and Showas...........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • IndraWIndraW November 2013
    Posts: 33
    hi bro shukri, let me try to give my opinion for this showa

    nice pattern, skin quality so so (still can improve in the future)
    my concern is the body shape... from my experience, this type of body is hard to get bulky.
    they can get big but not as strong as the fish with broad shoulder no matter how much they eat

  • ShukriShukri November 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    IndraW,
    OK noted, and thanks for sharing your thoughts..........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri April 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    I am sharing the latest on this Showa at 55cm.......... grown 9 cm since November.
    This koi won 1st in the 58BU Showa Sanshoku in the 4th Shinkokai Malaysia Wakagoi Show, beating other bigger counterpart.
    Seriously, I am looking at why this koi won...........
    Lets discuss this......... What I can see is only the strength of the Sumi and a white Shiroji......

    Before, 46cm picture,
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/14461/Female Dainichi Showa 46cm.JPG

    Now, 55cm picture,
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/15599/IMG_3590.JPG
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-01 04:04:56 am
    Attachments
    IMG_3590.JPG 189K
  • d88koid88koi April 2014
    Posts: 13
    Yes Its a beautiful looking showa, hope it will bulk up when it grows bigger.
    BTW , there is no result ( photos) of the 48 Bu and 58Bu Showa from the results of the recent 4th Wakagoi Show.
  • ShukriShukri April 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks d88koi for your feedback.
    Is it true as what you have said that there are no photos for the said BUs? I will inform the Shinkokai personal ASAP............
    Thanks for informing.............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri April 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    At the rate that this Showa is growing, I do not think that the Showa will make it for the next Wakagoi in April 2015 as it will bust the 63BU mark........ I am just waiting for the koi to bulk i.e. improve the girth........... I am also monitoring the development of the Beni and the Sumi. There are underlying Sumi in the head area........ just wondering when the Sumi will surface...........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Wouldn't this be a small head by any chance?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-01 12:40:13 am
  • cubercuber May 2014
    Posts: 96
    While the sumi development is quite significant, I can't say the same thing with the beni, for me I think the beni is kind of weak comparing to the shiroji and sumi.

    Bro Shukri, I will be more concern with the beni rather than the head shaped, but that's from my newbie eye. But did you feed any color food to your koi?

    Pattern wise, sumi & beni placement are all very favorable, for me that like modern showa than the traditional showa, I like more shiroji on showa, especially the kindai type. Also you might need to pump up on the body as I know you are also the body type rather than to the pattern type of person. :-D

    How come the motoguro is kinda sanke type rather than showa type? Very interesting pattern on this fish I believe. I would really like to see the future development of this showa. ;-)
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks Bro Cuber for your frank insights.......
    No doubt that this is a Showa as there are evidence of underlying Sumi near the nose and mouth area. I agree with your observation about the Beni being weak. I have not gone all out with color food with regards to this Showa. I intend to feed heavy color food going forward but definitely will not be over board with it. Right now, I do wonder whether the growth rate kind of stretch the Beni plate to be thin...... considering that its size is bigger than its peers (the peers are in the 40 plus cm). This koi is a big eater.

    You are surely on the dot when come to my preference i.e. body over everything else. Pattern is last for me, but these days I kind of starting to appreciate the importance of pattern. This is a longish female for me in a long time, some how when I look at this Showa (life view), it does not look long like in the picture.

    About the Motoguro, I cant explain it either.......... it looks now to have more Sumi than before...........

    As I have said before that this example is for all of us to learn, I will be updating on the Showa from time to time............ Hope that all of us can learn a thing or two with regards to choosing and grooming Showas.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2014-05-01 02:54:00 am
  • idrisidris May 2014
    Posts: 1,182
    Bang...body-need to improve
    Beni-too thin...try mr koi deep
    Sumi-power
    Shiroji-orgasm
    Pattern-depends on personal preference...

    Personally at this condition its so so...but if improve as above...huhu..will be nice...cant say its future gc...but its a good show koi pc...sory for being direct bang..u teach me like this..hehehe...
    Post edited by idris at 2014-05-01 03:36:51 am
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Hahahahaha Idris,
    Thanks for the feedback.......... if I need only good feedback, might as well get my own feedback only!!! :-))
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau May 2014
    Posts: 1,053
    Waaahhh...all have been said. Mostly a good fish bro. Body is good if can be pumped up. No stomach issue. Good shine on shiroji and a clean showa look.
    Personally I feel that the sumi will take a long time to appear solid black and might have unwanted small spot sumi(no shimi). It will have whitish effect for quite sometimes and still at fragile stage. It can come and go and come back and might go again :-D

    Sashi still need time to consolidate. Beni also fragile. Too much colour food might encourage secondary hi. But it has good show potential under your care bro :-)
  • KekwaKekwa May 2014
    Posts: 261
    Besides beni a bit weak, this showa will be quite a sight if she bulks up. Her skin and sumi is really good. Still Nisai?
    Whack color food coupled with high spirulina. Should make the beni more intense
  • ShukriShukri May 2014
    Posts: 4,881
    Thanks for the comments and input guys........
    Objective here is to learn and everyone to benefit the knowledge....

    Stay tune for future updates..........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Apply for Membership