What is your desire Pond Filter!
  • megatronmegatron April 2011
    Posts: 832
    We have seen brother David excellent ponds and filters as a benchmark; So given a chance either to build your new pond or rebuild your pond, what is your desire pond filter design? Is it 5, 6 & 7 filter chambers and the sequence of your media used? Is it with settlement chamber, sieve trap, TT or BS (media?), Oxygen concentrator, chiller (if one can afford to pay for the electricity bill), etc.... of course what we want is easy maintenance. Anyone wants to roll the ball first?
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • PH8PH8 April 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Daniel, if I could build my pond again, I would build it almost exactly like what Brother David has, with some very minor modifications to suit my budget.

    1. To me, ideal POND VOLUME is 30-50 TONS. Not too expensive to manage, whilst enough volume to buffer mistakes/excesses.

    2. I would build the pond ABOVE GROUND. Not only saving money not needing to dig a big hole, but also I really do like that we can hand feed the fish standing up. It's not so back breaking when we're older! The fish in my current in-ground pond are quite skittish because they are not used to having people so near them. I think fish in a raised pond will be much less skittish, as they will be a lot closer to the owner.

    3. Having a raised pond also enables a GLASS SIDE WINDOW to be built, and that is something I would like. A number of the Kuching kichis have incorporated this feature, and I do like it very much. Have to clean the algae off the window every now and then though.

    4. I would make my pond DEPTH 3-4 FEET. Pond floor does not need to be sloping.

    5. Pond shape would be RECTANGULAR, boring but much easier to manage flow as compared to irregular shaped ponds which may have dead spots.

    6. FILTER SIZE would be ONE THIRD (33%) of total pond+filter volume. In other words, the filter size is 50% of the volume of the pond proper.

    7. I would have SIX CHAMBERS in the filter, separated by conventional up-down partitions. 1st chamber would be have either a mechanized Rotary Drum Filter (RDF) or a DIY sieve fronting a few rows of brushes. Forget about vortices, they are normally ineffective at the small sizes that we typically build them. 2nd and 3rd chambers will be J-mats, arranged exactly the way Brother David arranges his, in a honeycomb fashion. 4th chamber would be for oyster shells as buffer. 5th chamber will be the clean chamber where the water pumps are placed. And 6th chamber is the dry chamber for backflushing. All the 1st 5 chambers would have bottom drains for this purpose.

    8. The pond will be SHADED to minimize algae growth and blooms. Prefer to also have CHILLERS to make temperatures more comfortable for the koi. Their skin, colours and lustre will also be better with cooler temperatures, as will their appetite.

    9. In terms of oxygenation needs, I would install a BAKKI SHOWER. If I can afford to have an OXYGEN CONCENTRATOR, even better, but these are not strong enough to drive long air tubes, only short air stones. So I would have 2-4 air tubes (depending on pond size), driven by normal air blowers, under the water returns to provide some current in the pond as well as some oxygenation effect. The air stones from the oxygen concentrator can be added to the filter or put at the same place as the air tubes, I don't think it matters so much if water mixing is good and oxygen levels are consistently high throughout the pond/filter. Even if I have an oxygen concentrator, I think I will still want a bakki shower for the reason that if the oxygen concentrator breaks down, oxygen level will not drop too much because the bakki shower is still working (unlikely that all water pumps will break down at the same time).

    10. Choose any media you like as bakki media. I'm fine with some J-mats in there. I look at the bakki shower more for oxygenation and degassing functions rather than as a filter (I've seen some bakkis with hardly anything inside their trays). There should be generous spaces between the trays for easy airflow.

    11. Water flow system will be STRAIGHT FLOW, where water returns and air tubes are placed at one end of the rectangular pond, and bottom drains, surface skimmer and overflow pipes are at the opposite end of the pond.

    12. In terms of WATER RETURNS, I personally prefer them to be from ABOVE water surface rather than through underwater venturi jets. This is particularly so for smaller ponds with high turnover rates as the force of the jets stirs up all the dirt, never allowing them to settle to be sucked into the bottom drains, thereby leaving lots of fines in the water. Bottom drains work much better if the water in their immediate vicinity is not overly turbulent. Water returns from above water surface generate a much more gentle flow, even with high pond turnover rates. Water can be returned from above either through a waterfall, directly from the bakki shower or even using pipes as Brother David does (since he does not use a bakki shower).

    13. I would FIBREGLASS the pond interior black. Not only it a good form of water proofing (if done properly), but it also helps a little to keep out heat. Last but not least, there is something surreal about watching the koi against a black background, they look like they're floating in space. I've tried all kinds of black paint, but they never fail to peel off, leaving ugly grey spots all around the pond. Fibreglassing is the answer, but expensive though.

    14. Pond TURNOVER RATE should be minimum 1x per hour but better still 2-4x per hour based on gross pump output.

    Long essay again, but how to cover everything using a short post? :O Anyway, these are just my personal thoughts/opinions/preferences, and I would also like to see others' views. Come on, guys.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-04-23 03:16:31 am
  • AnuarAnuar April 2011
    Posts: 688
    Ditto on the viewing glass! A must have for anyone who are planning to build new pond. Bro David 's video shows a totally different perspective of the kois environment, and also how we view the kois.

    Well put Bro Paul, simple checklist and easy to digest. So when are you rebuilding yours? (rock)
  • ChengAunChengAun April 2011
    Posts: 925
    if i ever had the money then.....
    i would have my pond around 35 tons, straight flow design with all the bd's and ss' on the opposite side of the water returns, chamber filter with 6 chambesr filled with Jmats, diy sieve,biorings and oyster shell,bakki shower filled with ogata crystal bio and if possible, a Ditto Oxygenation Box (but really expensive) :) and also chiller
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
    Post edited by ChengAun at 2011-04-23 03:07:50 am
  • PH8PH8 April 2011
    Posts: 683
    Haha, no lah Bro Anuar. Although my pond system is not quite the ideal, I'm still happy with what it currently is. :) It would cost me way too much to redo it! Redoing a pond would cost more than building one from scratch, I believe.

    One more thing about straight flow systems, which is from my observation as well as confirmed by Brother David in a previous discussion. For the more ambitious hobbyists who wish to build a much bigger pond, bear in mind that the pure straight flow system (with bottom drains all located at far end of the pond) has its limitations. I have heard of people wanting to build ponds which are 40 feet or even 60 feet long, so that the koi can swim laps. :-D Well, I think for such long ponds, the fish pooh takes much too long to be swept (by fish action) to the bottom drains. Water quality will suffer if the pooh takes too long to be "processed" or flushed out. More bottom drains may have to be placed along the way and not just all placed at the end. From my own observation, locating all the bottom drains at one end is only effective for pond lengths up to maximum 30 feet (preferably 25 feet) and not exceeding that.
  • PH8PH8 April 2011
    Posts: 683
    Tategoi CA, 35 tons sounds kind of exact! You're already having some plans, are you? :-D
  • megatronmegatron April 2011
    Posts: 832
    Thanks Brother Paul for spending time written down every single detail. As I read, I can feel that it is really expressed all your thoughts. It will be a good learning for newbie like me from experience hobbyists. I remember that I had read SLTan's pond & filter design in an article written by him few years ago. He seems to be quiet for quite sometime in forum.

    After reading so many individuals' thread shown and discussed about one's pond & filter, but have not been really convince myself how effective can the fish pooh remove almost immediately, until I seen some if the experience hobbyists' pond &filter.

    Let see others opinion in their ideal pond & filter.
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • megatronmegatron June 2011
    Posts: 832
    Hi brothers, I intended to redesign my filter chamber for easy maintenance to incorporate a bottom discharge pipe in each chamber and also an additional dry chamber, this is the initial drawing. Please comment. Thanks.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/3397/Filter Design 01.jpg

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/3398/Filter Design 02.jpg
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • PH8PH8 June 2011
    Posts: 683
    Hi Bro Daniel, what is your estimated pond size? How many bottom drains will you be having and are there water returns other than through the trickle tower?
  • megatronmegatron June 2011
    Posts: 832
    The details:-

    1st chamber : Settlement chamber (4" bottom drain + 2" Skimmer)
    2nd chamber : Brushes
    3rd chamber : Crystal Bio + Oyster shell on top (with Aeration)
    4th chamber : Pump connect to trickle tower + UV

    *All chambers will incorporate with bottom drain and stand pipes
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • megatronmegatron June 2011
    Posts: 832
    Bro Paul, my existing pond size is 12' length x 5' width x 3' depth with only one bottom drain at one corner and filter is only 5' x 4' with 4 nos. of chamber. I can't expend my pond anymore, but can only modify my filter now. There is also possible to at one more bottom drain. By the way, my pond is raised up like David's pond (because of Fung Shui).

    Currently, there is only one water return to TT. I can add one more but any idea where shall the return?
    Don't ask me why!!!
    Post edited by megatron at 2011-06-17 08:40:26 pm
  • cookcpucookcpu June 2011
    Posts: 462
    If you going to redesign the filter chamber. I suggest you add a few more chamber. That is if you have enough space for it or calculate the total space and see can it fit 7 chamber.

    1st chamber : Settlement chamber (4" bottom drain + 2" Skimmer)
    2nd chamber : Brushes
    3rd chamber: J-matt
    4th chamber:J-matt
    5rd chamber : Crystal Bio + Oyster shell on top (with Aeration)
    6th chamber : Pump connect to trickle tower + UV
    7th chamber: Dry chamber for daily flushing.
    Post edited by cookcpu at 2011-06-17 10:14:38 pm
  • ChengAunChengAun June 2011
    Posts: 925
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/3401/Untitled.png
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • megatronmegatron June 2011
    Posts: 832
    Brother CA, I can't have my filter next to pond due the space issue. The existence 4 chambers will be remained with additional of 1 dry chamber n bottom drain for all chambers to be constructed. I need to have stand pipes at dry chamber for back flush; however, how can I avoid leaking? Shall I have stand pipe at both sides?
    Don't ask me why!!!
    Post edited by megatron at 2011-06-18 05:40:39 pm
  • StevieStevie June 2011
    Posts: 323
    One thing Bro Paul,

    Water change. It's very important and David's secret. Instead of 5% to 10% once a day I would prefer to drip new water at water return and overflow old water on the other end (pump chamber to dry chamber) calculate as such the total drip per day is within 5% to 10%.
  • YamatoYamato June 2011
    Posts: 184
    Very interesting!
    Lots to consider and learn!
    So a bakki should have space between tiers??? Mine does not have??? Will have to make a stand.
    I went to visit several ponds in SA.
    The one that really shocked me was the pond of the chairman of Koi society...
    He had monster koi, in a rectangular pond, liner, with no bottom drains.
    The2 returns were positioned in such a way so that water circulates in a circle towards a perforated pipe on the bottom which is connected to the pump.
    From there (I think it is called vortex???) small one then sand filter filled with zeolite, which he uses instead of sand????? (what does he do in case he has to salt his pond???)
    From there up a hill and under a big concrete rectangular tank (3mx1.5mx1m h)
    with a sieve 20 cm above the floor and above it 40 cm of crushed stones mixed with a rock that looks like sponge. from there it overflows into a spring that goes down by gravity to the pond. Simple but effective ????
    I have seen 90% of them use as bakki media plastic shavings and the same put in onion bags as biofilter media packed next to each other.
    All is the same basically.. if it fulfills the principles of filtration.
    I visited a koi farm and the owner was making his own media....???
    Here is a pic for U.
    Maybe U can like to see it.
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3402/225440_149609168442768_146822465388105_291998_5707425_n (1).jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/3403/226398_149609298442755_146822465388105_292000_6018963_n.jpg

    More pics from the farm are on my FB page:


    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Koi-and-pond-Club-Zambia/146822465388105
  • PH8PH8 June 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Stevie, a drip is not quite the same as a water change. A drip freshens water constantly, yes. But the overflow that results from the drip is heavily diluted. You can get rid of the bad things on the surface (DOCs), but you don't get rid of the bad things at the bottom. Backflushing, on the other hand, rids the filter chambers immediately of all the dirty things that have settled at the bottom of the filter chambers. There is a world of difference between backflushing and not dripping, and dripping and not backflushing. As for me, I backflush about 8% a day PLUS have a constant drip of about 5% of pond volume daily.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-06-18 07:50:53 am
  • StevieStevie June 2011
    Posts: 323
    Oh! Thanks brother for the correction. Still need flushing.
    Post edited by Stevie at 2011-06-18 08:00:46 am

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