Help for a newbie
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    Thanks for this wonderful forum.It is very informative and have a lot of experienced hobbiyist. I am always enjoyed watching some beautiful Koi ponds in crystal clear water. I am from Kerala, India
    Now I have made a small pond in my new house which is semi circle in shape and has a capacity of about 3000 liters.I made a drainage option from the bottom opening 5 meters away and an inlet pipe coming from there opening at a higher level in to the tank.I have done it for the purpose of connecting a canister like filter
    ad it allows gravity drainage. Half of my tank is exposed to rain and sunlight.
    So I would like someone to suggest a suitable filteration system for my tank in which I have started with some 10 small koi fishes as a trial and it is all muddy now.I would like to buy something which is available in India or able to deliver in this part
    Thanks in advance
    Binu
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    Hello there ! ... and welcome to the forum !
    I think that the main reason why many have not responded is because you asked for recommendations as to what to buy in India. This is something that very very few of us would have any information on.
    As to the rest of your query - I will try to share some personal thoughts.

    3000 liters is actually quite small for a koi pond - but it can be done. The size is roughly what I have as a combined figure for 2 of my " growing on " fiberglass tanks. The tosai that I buy are kept here for 6 - 12 months before undergoing selection for my house pond which is about 8000 liters inclusive of the filters.
    I keep them in these 1500 liter F/G tanks so that I can observe them closely, and also because small volumes of water are much more easier to manage. Filtration can be done through many ways and additional box filters linked up whenever necessary. Water changes, if required, are also a snap to perform. The many advantages are clear, and the challenge will be related to how many koi you actually put in - your stocking density.
    I start off initially with about 6 - 8 tosai in each tank, but will gradually reduce these to about 3 per tank ( 500 liters of water per growing fish )

    The above allows me to have ( visually, at least ) very clear water by using simple and tidy ( 3 or 4 chamber ) box filters with a submerged pump.
    Your plan to have a gravity fed filtration system is good - and it will give you even clearer water because it does not have the pump mincing up the mess left behind by the koi before it enters the filter.

    The clarity of water is therefore determined by size of water, stocking density, how much you feed, and the capacity of your filter. A gravity fed filter system will probably give you the best chance to achieve crystal clarity - but I have not found this necessary in the case of my fiber glass tanks. And yes, my pond uses a gravity fed main system backed up by a Waterco bead filter, and I can see each and every pebble in the 5 feet of water !

    As for recommendations from forumers - you will need to provide a bit more detail concerning your 3000 liter pond. e.g. what is this made off ? Some rough diagrams ? Don't worry about the sun - a sun shade is a small matter if that is what you require eventually.

    Hope that the above helps. :)
    Mike Lee
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    Thanks a lot Mfwlee for the detailed reply.
    My tank is made of ferro-cement and painted with a pool paint inside. I have added a small image.
    Suppose if I connect a canister filter do you recommend to run it 24 hours ?
    Thanks
    Binu
    Post edited by binsmath at 2013-07-19 09:35:53 am
    Attachments
    resized.jpg 40K
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    Dear Binu - I am not able to see your filter arrangements from the picture, but you will need a fair bit of excavation for a gravity fed system if you have not yet made preparations for such.
    If you have not, and decide to use an external box filter - there are many to chose from but I do not know what is available in Kerala. To be on the safe side, I will always go for one that is at least twice ( if not 3 times ) the claimed capacity. Many are meant for ornamental ponds and not meant to handle the mess that our koi will produce.
    Yes, I would run it 24/7 together with an air pump for aeration - 2 stones in the pond, and 2 stones in the filter controlled by a simple air regulator because I do not want the air to be as vigorous inside the filter as compared to in the pond.
    You have mentioned canister filter and I take it to mean that these are cylindrical shaped ? I normally don't like these as they are very difficult to clean - I prefer traditional box filters with different compartments so that I can easily clean the mechanical section without having to disturb the biological sections.
    Mike Lee
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    Thanks Mike,
    At the moment no filters are connected. Only pipe lines are laid. The pond is inside the house and the bottom level pipe opens above the ground level when I extend it outside the house as my house foundation is about 70 centimetres high. So only the drainage and inlet pipes are placed. I have to connect a filter system in between.
    Thanks
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    Watch our for your stocking levels, and compensate for flow efficiency loss if your filters are located some distance from the pond. Get it all right now so that you can sit back and enjoy your koi.

    Happy Koi keeping and keep us posted ya ? :)
    Mike Lee
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    Thanks Mike. Sure I shall update as soon as some filters are connected.
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    Hey there Bro @binsmath,
    Welcome to the forum, i am glad that you landed at proper koi forum to learn and grow at the same time.

    What i observe from your comments is, you are more interested to keep canister filter which is good for aquarium tanks with less no of fishes. For kois and pond, you need a filter like what brother @Mfwlee suggested and if you have money, then build a new proper koi pond and keep some cracking kois in it, is what i can suggest you.

    In India don’t source anywhere much, as we don’t get good koi pond filter, instead peoples sell swimming pool bead filter as Koi pond bead filter. I have been in this hobby for 6+ years now, still its pain to get koi pond related product in India, but yes it’s possible to get what we need, but with additional cost added, hope you are getting my point.

    There are other filter types which i can suggest you to build like (Drum Filter / FRP 3or4 Chamber tank filter box / if you have space build concrete filter chamber ) + materials or let me help you to do it, if you wish.

    A filter pump is designed to run 24/7, so you must run filter 24/7.
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    Welcome to the forum bro.
    Filter system is the most important thing for pond. U can have canister filter but must connect two filter together as one canister wont be sufficient for pond as bro ashfaq mentioned. Make sure to have oyster shell for pH buffering.

    Happy koi keeping :)
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    Thank you very much Ashfaq, Sorry for the delay in reply.
    Regarding the tank I can't make any modification's as it is built alongside my building foundation in the available space. I am not particular about canister filter but thought it is easy but from the forum I understand it is not sufficient for a Koi tank. Maybe 3 or 4 chamber filtration system should work for me. Your help in this will matter will be highly appreciated.
    I am uploading a rough drawing of the pond with two pipes connected
    Thanks
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    Not sure if I fully understand the diagram. Normally you will have the pond outlet to the filters at the bottom ( this is where the gunk will collect ), and the water returning inlet on top, but at the opposite end ( this gives better circulation and avoids stagnant areas ) ?
    Mike Lee
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    Sorry - should have been clearer.
    Water tends to find its own path of least resistance. If you have both the inlet and the outlet pipes close together, then water will simply move directly from the inlet to the outlet.
    This means that a large part of your pond will be left out of the circulation - definitely not a good thing. You should consider this carefully as a wrong layout can easily defeat any good filter that you might have.

    Mike Lee
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    No prob brother.
    Inlet and outlet at same area, definitely not a good idea. You need to take inlet to opposite direction of the outlet.

    I see some open space near your pond area, can you give estimation how much space is free for building filter chamber there? As your pond is already constructed, we can construct the filter chamber may be over top of the ground level?

    Does the inlet water comes from tap/pump or any filter added?
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    I am adding a little more detailed drawing for Mike.On topography you should get a better idea about how the inlet and outlets are spaced out. The outlet is a perforated pipe with half submerged to the floor of the tank running almost full length.The floor is well sloped to one side. And the outlet pipe exit at the deepest part. The inlet is at a higher level and slightly away.
    Hope you got some idea.Another thing is when I extend the pipes 3.5 meters away both pipes are visible above the ground allowing a gravity flow if a filter is placed.At present no filters are connected.
    For ashfaq's query, there is sufficient space for some filters as the pipes opens outside the house (the tank is inside the house and is a part of the internal courtyard). The water I am using is the normal tap water which is collected in an underground tank. (Usually open it for some time to get rid of any flouride left in it)
    I prefer plastic chambers if possible and avoid concrete works.
    Also like to know more about Bthineshkumar's suggestion also
    Thanks guys
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    I am going to have to step back a little here - I have not used a perforated outlet pipe before because I worry too much about the flow in the pond.
    To me, I would stick with outlets and inlets on opposite ends so that strong circulation is easier to achieve, and this together with the pick up being at the deepest end would mean that the gunk has the easiest path to the filter.
    I stand corrected however.
    Mike Lee
  • binsmathbinsmath July 2013
    Posts: 7
    Thanks mike
    Here the perforations are created by me and not too many. As you suggested the flow could be corrected to opposite directions by changing the inlet to the opposite direction and partly sealing the holes created near the inlet.
    So what about the filter system? How I should do that ? If not it is not available for purchase can I make one or is connecting two ready made filters can do the work?
    Thanks
  • MfwleeMfwlee July 2013
    Posts: 355
    One of my house ponds uses the traditional concrete " over and under " filters with the normal brushes, Japanese matting, bio media, and oyster shells / UV light, in the last chamber. This is pump fed and has flushing valves located at the bottom of each compartment. Easy to make, and very easy to maintain and has lasted more than 10 years.

    As posted earlier, my Fiberglass Growing On tanks use commercial hardened plastic " flow through " box filters. Mine are very old models that have served well - but you can see some of the newer models here - http://www.oase-livingwater.com/en_EN/water-garden/products/filters/flow-through-filters/biotec.html
    My old design ones do not have the convenience of flushing valves, but the mechanical sections ( first 2 chambers ) are designed so that they easily lift out for cleaning ( but still a bit messy ). The newer designs should have flush valves for every chamber - and this is a lot neater and user friendly.
    These filters are also pump fed ( pump is in the tank ) and have also proved completely adequate so long as I kept to reasonable koi stocking levels.

    My other pond uses Gravity Feed, Vortex filters, and a sedimentation tank. The whole lot is complemented by a WaterCo Bead Filter. The water almost looks cleaner than what I drink ! A bit complicated and definitely an overkill at the moment - so I will leave it alone for now.

    All 3 filter types have worked well for me - take your pick.

    If you are going to make your own - google up some important figures - but the filter should very roughly be 1/3 the size of your pond.

    Best of koi keeping !
    Mike Lee

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