Deworming - anybody doing?
  • AnuarAnuar February 2011
    Posts: 688
    Hi all,

    I had a chat with Jeff of Arowana a few weeks ago and he suggested that as a preventive measure, we should all give medicated food, the term which he used was deworming. He gave me some yellow powder ( not otc) and suggested that I mix it with koi pellet, air dry for an hour and thereafter to feed the kois. He mentioned that he does that monthly at his shop.

    I googled and found very limited info on this, but came across an article or rather an instruction for some aquaculture chemical which said that "deworming" will clear bacteria as well as "worm" which could result in stunted growth.

    The last bout of ulcers and fungus gave me plenty of headache and heartache and now I am looking at preventive measures. Just for sharing, I found that topical application of iodine at the ulcers followed by blagdon anti ulcer works. But it is very hard to deal with fungus which is the cause of mouth rot, and also columnaris bacteria which is the cause of fin rot. Have tried blagdon anti fungus and bacteria but to no avail.

    Regards.
  • PH8PH8 February 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Anuar, other than for flukes, Praziquantel is effective for deworming too. In fact vets use Prazi to deworm dogs. Unfortunately, I cannot find Praziquantel in Malaysia and apparently even in Spore it is a controlled substance. The Prazi used by vets for dogs is in a different form (according to my neighbourhood vet) and contains other things so cannot be used for koi. In the past I ordered my Praziquantel through the internet (Utah Koi) but it can get expensive if you airfreight it.

    I think mouth rot is a bacterial thingy, not fungal. Although anti bacterial remedies such as PP, MG etc may solve the problem in the near term, care must still be taken to keep (bad) bacterial levels low in the pond otherwise they will continue to recur. Regular maintenance use of Biotope/MG/PP may help in this regard. Dosages 5ml/ton, 0.2g/ton and 0.8g/ton respectively. Just one of them will do, don't use all 3!

    Ps. The Misaki anti parasite solution apparently contains Praziquantel as well, though I cannot verify it since the bottle does not list down its active components. From the colouration, I think MG is probably its base ingredient.

    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-02-12 06:50:17 pm
  • AnuarAnuar February 2011
    Posts: 688
    Bro Paul,

    Found the article http://www.aquatickoi.com/category/koi-medicines-and-water-quality-products/para-wash-aqua-medicines

    You are right about using prazi as deworming agent. This is the website introduced by Bro Alan in the old forum, their retail shop is in Kuching. I actually tried AN Remover which I think works, I believe Bro Alan is using this.

    Andrew of Atari also told me that the Misaki AP3 contains Prazi, I tried and thought that it helps to slow down frequent gulping. But I think this is only appropriate as a treatment rather than preventive measure.

    I am now wondering if our Brothers in Kuching tried the other stuff mentioned in Aquatickoi website - they are also the importer of matala stuff, and carry a few other koi related equipment.
  • cookcpucookcpu February 2011
    Posts: 462
    In Singapore, you can get the liquid form of Praziquantel from SeaView/Nanyang at seletar farm 1, the name is Prazi Pro.

    The only thing is it come in only 500 ml bottle and you do not know what is the percent of Praziquantel inside the bottle.

    In Singapore I can't find any koi medical food.

    My thought is if your koi in the pond keep having repeated ulcer problem, I think you need to find out the root cause rather than keep treating the pond with medicine. IMHO.

    PS. I occasionally dose with Prazi Pro in my pond for preventive maintaince....like 6 month 1 times.
    Post edited by cookcpu at 2011-02-12 09:02:35 pm
  • yysim88yysim88 February 2011
    Posts: 340
    Bro Anuar and Bro Paul,

    I have 500g. of the Parawash in my store of which the active ingredient is Praziquantel. It is in powder form. So far, I have not tried the product yet but was told by Chris Pui, the distributor, that is effective in deworming koi that are suffering from stunted growth.

    I have a Sekiguchi Showa that I consider to have stunted growth, has been 55-56cm for the12 months or so. It may be a good idea to try feeding her with pellet food soaked in Parawash and see whether there is any positive result in terms of growth.
    Post edited by yysim88 at 2011-02-12 09:35:33 pm
  • AnuarAnuar February 2011
    Posts: 688
    Bro Cookcpu, I think the root cause is a showa that I bought without any form of qt. SHe was the first to be inflcited with mouth rot, almost immediately upon introduction to the pond - the pond has been almost trouble free for the past 3 years. She was given 3 doses of antobiotic jab with a few sessions of topical application of iodine. She is in recovering stage now and a part of the mouth area is now wasted including missing whisker/barbule. Another event that happened is my participation in the last show in Genting, but I just don't think it is the cause. All this happened at high salt level, i.e upto 0.50% in preparation of the past show. The last possibility is because I had 24 kois, not really a good number and by process of natural selection, has brought the number down to 23.. haha.

    The incident had taught me not to take things for granted and as such I am looking for some practical preventive measure. I think I have come across Prazi Pro (as a brand) in the American koi magazine, but as pointed by Bro Paul, we could not find any form of Prazi here in KL.

    Bro Alan, thanks for sharing. I think I might give it a try.
  • PH8PH8 February 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro Anuar, not suggesting that Misaki anti parasite be used as a preventive. Just noted it for those who have a flukes problem and cannot source Prazi here in Malaysia. Depending on what was causing your koi to gulp, I guess Misaki anti parasite might have a positive effect.

    Bro William, FD Supplement is actually a medicated food. It's not cheap though.

    Bro Alan, now that Bro Anuar mentioned it, I recall that you did tell us before about Para Wash but I forgot about it. I wonder why the KL dealers do not carry it. Thing is, I personally generally prefer pond treatments to food treatments. My 3 reasons are -
    1. Food treatments take up more time and effort. Something like the effort to make paste food, which I gave up on quite some time ago.
    2. If the medication can be absorbed so easily into food, even after drying for an hour I would imagine the medication would just as easily dissipate into the pond water once the food is thrown in. This would probably dilute the effect of the medication to an ineffective level.
    3. If a koi is sick, the koi would probably hardly be eating anyway. Only the healthy koi would be eating the medicated food.

    Utah Koi did tell me that they feel it good to dose Praziquantel every 6 months as a preventive. Prazi doesn't harm koi, so I guess it would be similar to dog owners deworming their dogs periodically.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-02-13 07:43:22 am
  • cookcpucookcpu February 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro Anuar, I am glad you know the root cause and the affected koi is being cured. Having a over crowded pond need a lot of time to maintain the pond water and any slight out of syn of the water parameter it might tip the balance the other way.

    Bro Paul, I thought FD Supplement is just a balance diet after the koi being fed with FD build up for months.

    I do feed my koi with FD Supplement after a couple of months of feeding them with high growth food.

    Below the link is the prazi medicine I bought in Singapore.

    http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435430
    Post edited by cookcpu at 2011-02-13 04:03:14 am
  • PH8PH8 February 2011
    Posts: 683
    Bro William, reliable sources have confirmed that FD Supplement IS a medicated food. Just that it is not marketed as a medicated food because of technical issues.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2011-02-13 05:10:22 am
  • cookcpucookcpu February 2011
    Posts: 462
    Bro Paul thank you for the information.

    Now I know where to get medical food. :)
  • lautslauts February 2011
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Anuar,

    If you are interested to use Prazi as preventive and deworm i suggest Hadaclean by Bayer. Contains prazi 5% to be mixed with food. Some kois may not like it , but if you starve them, am sure they will wallop too. Locally available from Syndel Asia. They have a few products that derive from Vircon S , used to disinfect even KHV by Bayer and application similar to Biotope. I have tried Hadaclean but not the disinfectant, give them a call and ask for Erin their Technical Manager to explain.
    Syndel supplies to fish farms, and with our pond sizes by the tonnes, farm supplies are more economical than aquarium supplies to use. Good luck.

    rgd
    ts
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Fishes dont quite like the taste of Praziquantel. If you choose to put it in the food, then you have to mask the taste. Else, I suggest you to put it in the water. 3 to 5 grams per ton will do it. It takes 5 to 7 days per treatment. The beauty of it is that you do not have to do water change after the treatment period.

    From my experience, I have seen approximate 6 inches of worms that came out from the fishes vent, not once but many times. I use prazi to cure flukes problem, but the positive side effect is that it takes care of the worms as well. If you yourself soak in the pond i.e. half hour or so, worms will also exit from your rear end......... :-)) :-)) :-))
    In due time........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • snowlionsnowlion February 2011
    Posts: 248
    adding on to Brudder TS's piece on Hadaclean A.

    I have used this on mine too....fishes finished all treated pellets.
    I used 1 kg wheat germ based pellets, 7.5g of Hadaclean A.

    Noticed that Hadaclean powder has a orange smell, suppose this can mask the bad taste.
    My fishes still finish them in one go.

    One trick to avoid Prazi leeching into water before fishes consume them, is to feed smaller quantity in shorter time, this way the chances of these pellets floating too long can be lessened.

    Worms coming out from rear!!!! I have not seen it in my fishes yet....hoping not too either.

    Jerome Ng
  • ShukriShukri February 2011
    Posts: 4,881
    Doing a prazi treatment to the pond, once a year is a good practice..... :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.

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