Dosage for Hydrogen peroxide when electricity is gone?
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    Brothers, any correct dosage for using Hydrogen peroxide when electricity is gone?

    for 1000/10000 litre how many ML of Hydrogen peroxide to be added?
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • TomyCTomyC July 2013
    Posts: 103
    Take a bucket, keep splashing water to create aeration.
  • HDCuHDCu July 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Ashfaq,

    Hydrogen peroxide is an acid at 2.5ph and a strong oxidizer. In very low oxygen environment as a result of high DOC and not enough oxygen, hydrogen peroxide can be use as a last resort to suddenly increase oxygen levels while it oxidizes DOC.

    However, I would give caution from the use and abuse of hydrogen peroxide when there is electricity is off. For one Hydrogen peroxide is more stable and breaksdown much less in ideal condition. It can also lower the Ph of water. For example, electricity is off and dose hydrogen peroxide based on somebody's recommendation. Within a few minutes electricity turns back on but after a few hours electricity is off again and again you dose hydrogen peroxide again based on somebody's recommendation. I hope I am getting my point across.

    I do carry hydrogen peroxide for cleaning wounds if necessary but I use a standby pure oxygen tank with regulator as well linked to a small airhose diffuser that I can instantly drop in the pond in the event power outage last more than 15 minutes. A full tank can last for six hours already.
  • harryyewharryyew July 2013
    Posts: 396
    Good morning Bro ashfag

    May I know why you suddenly think of H2O2 when electricity is gone?

    Cheers
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    Good morning brother HDCu & Harryyew
    Here in my country electricity some times goes off from 9AM to 5PM and some times 12++ hours. I read in forums that H2O2 is used for increasing oxygen level in water if proper amount of dosage is applied,Some times when electricity is gone, we dont get awaked quickly, say after 1-2 hours if got awaked and see all kois gulping then this H2O2 will be handy as written in forum. Thats the reason i thought of buying 5-10 bottles. I cant take a bucket, keep splashing water to create aeration all these long hours at night.


    I have already used H202 before when doing PP treatment,but with out having any idea how much of dosage i should add. Now i thought of doing it in right way especially when electricity is gone with 2-3 battery operated air pumps added.


    Brother HDCU,
    I dont know that H2O2 will bring down the PH level.
    I wanted to understand if once H2O2 is applied, how many hours/minutes will it hold oxygen in the water.
    Any suggestion how many ML of dosage we need to add for 1000/10000 litre pond?
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • HDCuHDCu July 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Ashfaq,

    Its very difficult to give an estimate on safe levels of H202 as they are produced in different concentrations from as low as 3 percent to as high as 70 percent. Furthermore, it is only when H202 decomposes is when it releases oxygen. Decomposition would depend on temperature, Ph, reaction with certain chemicals(example is PP) and DOC, etc. It will not release oxygen just because the dissolved oxygen in water is low.

    If you would still want to use it though, please experiment first with a redox meter , a safe level would be not to go over 380mv.


  • TomyCTomyC July 2013
    Posts: 103
    You could consider solar air pumps with batteries. Also reducing fish stock. Else a backup battery (UPS) to run your regular air pumps.
  • ShukriShukri July 2013
    Posts: 4,881
    Another cost effective way is to let your tap water to run continuously until the electricity is back on. Only thing is to monitor the chlorine level from time to time. Add the anti chlorine as desired. I did this twice, and no problems with the fishes.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Ahfaq,
    It's really a challenge to keep the jewels in your area bro. Anyway, I have tried H2O2 to get rid of PP with the dosage of 100ml per 10,000L of water. Its the normal concentration used to clean wound in normal clinic. I am not sure the actual concentration as I dont any H2O2 left. Make sure you mix it in a bucket of water and try to spread it evenly in the pond. How long it will last will be very subjective. Monitor your kois behaviour or test the water frequently to establish a good estimate on dosage and duration. Quite a number of variables to dictate it's effectiveness (as mentioned by bro HDCu).

    As for me, I like to use tap water as bro Shukri has suggested when blackout. I hang the hose outlet as high as possible against the roof. Since I got saperate carbon filter, no worry on chlorine effect. Its not so much about the volume of water but more on the splash effect to create bubbles. So far this trick seems to work fine. And dont forget to backwash the filter chambers when the power resumed normally.
  • HDCuHDCu July 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    I used to do the spray from the hose thing and applying sodium thiosulfate as well before but I did notice a slight thinning of the beni afterwards if it exceeds more than three hours. As such ive now shifted to using pure oxygen. Once oxygen runs out, i go back to spray hose. hehe
    Post edited by HDCu at 2013-07-05 03:40:08 pm
  • TomyCTomyC July 2013
    Posts: 103
    I think Sodium thiosulfate when reacted with chlorine produces ammonia? So if there's no electricity, wouldn't the ammonia in high levels be hazardous to the koi?

    http://www.oscarfish.com/oscar-forum/viewtopic.php/f,1/t,87409/
  • HDCuHDCu July 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    Sodium thiosulfate reacts with chlorine in water to produce hydrochloric acid and chloride ions. Ammonia plus chlorine reacts to form chloramine. Sodium thiosulfate reacts with Chloramine which results in ammonia and hydrochloric acid and chloride ions.

    So if your source water contains just chlorine then sodium thiosulfate added will not increase ammonia provided you put the sodium thiosulfate solution first then add new source city water. If your source water contains also chloramine then you will add also ammonia. The good thing is that the addition of hydrochloric acid in effect lowers the toxicity of ammonia while adding water plus flushing will also dilute the ammonia buildup in the pond. So its removing ammonia by dilution and adding again when chloramine is broken down by sodium thiosulfate. Of course if ammonia released from chloramine breaking down is more than what is diulted then you will be increasing your ammonia levels. But if dilution of ammonia buildup from koi is more then I guess its a positive thing.

    There are other more expensive and effective solutions like amquel that removes the ammonia and chlorine if you do not want the cheap sodium thiosulfate.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2013-07-05 06:57:01 pm
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Once a while, just test the water supply with the usage of STS. If there is ammonia present, the water supply could have chloromine present. To get rid the chloromine, I normally will double the anti cholorine (STS).
  • TomyCTomyC July 2013
    Posts: 103
    I read it's fine to overdose the STS? How long does STS remain in the water effecting new chloroamine?
  • HDCuHDCu July 2013
    Posts: 1,117
    As far as I know STS is quite stable in distilled water. It will react will chloramine in water immediately.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Still ok up to 11 times overdosed :-0
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    Thank you brother Captain, shukri , tommyC and HDCu for the comments.

    Really very tough condition to keep the jewels here, due to huge population water scarcity etc is also here , but yes bro shukri suggestion is very simple and good.

    I will try all alternative suggestions, which is provided above. Let me try with dosage of 100ml per 10,000L of water and monitor.
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    Further to Bro ikankoikau's comments, Quote:

    "As for me, I like to use tap water as bro Shukri has suggested when blackout. I hang the hose outlet as high as possible against the roof. Since I got saperate carbon filter, no worry on chlorine effect. Its not so much about the volume of water but more on the splash effect to create bubbles. So far this trick seems to work fine. And dont forget to backwash the filter chambers when the power resumed normally. "

    I have automated the above system as follows (extracted from my article under another Discussion):

    I use a solenoid valve which is basically a stop cork where the opening and closing is done electrically. The solenoid valve I am using is open normally and when it is energised it closes. Thus basically let the mains water go through this valve and spray onto the pond using a shower head. Energise the solenoid valve by plugging it to the mains and the valve will remain shut. Whenever there is a power failure, the valve will open and spray water over the pond and when the power comes back the valve will automatically shut. It is as simple as that.

    I enclose photos of my setup of the solenoid valve so that it gives a clearer picture of what I have described above and I hope it will be useful to the readers.

    Regards,
    Rajasingam


    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13301/1. View of Solenoid valve.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13302/2. View of label on packing.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13303/3. View of solenoid valve installed.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13304/4. Another view of solenoid valve installed.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13305/5. View of shower when solenoid valve is energised.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13306/6. View of shower when there is a power failure.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13307/7. Another view of shower when there is a power failure.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13308/8. Aeration of pond.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13310/2. View of label on packing.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13311/3. View of solenoid valve installed.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13312/4. Another view of solenoid valve installed.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13313/5. View of shower when solenoid valve is energised.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13314/6. View of shower when there is a power failure.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13315/7. Another view of shower when there is a power failure.jpgwww.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13316/8. Aeration of pond.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13318/5. View of shower when solenoid valve is energised.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13319/4. Another view of solenoid valve installed.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13320/5. View of shower when solenoid valve is energised.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13321/6. View of shower when there is a power failure.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13322/7. Another view of shower when there is a power failure.jpg
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/13323/8. Aeration of pond.jpg
  • ashfaqashfaq July 2013
    Posts: 799
    Wow thats cool, i think i need to hire a mechanical guy do understand and implement what you have done here :)
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro,
    Very good mechanical/elec feature. How much and where do you get it?
  • rsingamrsingam July 2013
    Posts: 116
    Bro ikankoikau,

    Pls refer to attached bill.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau July 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Thanks bro.

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