Urgent: Incoming Pipe Water High PH?
  • andysiaandysia June 2013
    Posts: 56
    Just wondering anyone of you in Klang Valley experiences very high reading of incoming pipe water from Syabas?

    My kois displayed a bit "parking" syndrome, hence I decided to test the pond water. PH is high at 8.5! I have been changing 15% water daily for the past few days!

    Out of curiosity I took the reading of pipe water. Apparently, the reading is also 8.5! (previously used to be 7!). For info, I live in Cheras.

    Also, just wondering what would be the best option / cure if kois are flashing / parking due to sudden high PH. For low PH I have oyster shells as buffer ... but for high PH :-?

    Thanks.

    Andy Sia
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar June 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    pH 8.5 still ok bro. As long as not sudden spike. But I more worry the contents of the water which has high pH :-?
  • andysiaandysia June 2013
    Posts: 56
    My kois are parking now, probably due to the sudden PH change ... Besides the high PH, pipe water smells a bit weird :-S ... maybe it's own own illusion ...

    Any sifu knows what's the remedy for koi parking due to sudden PH change (i.e. from 7 to >8.5)?

    Bro BT, the content I am not sure ... but one lesson learnt ... never take the pipe water for granted ... sometimes, changing water introduces problem ... :O
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar June 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro
    IMHO, stop feeding for few days, and salting 0.3% might help.

    Agree with u, incoming water sometimes hazard. I have membrane filter for incoming water and carbon filter for water going into pond. I regularly flush both these filters and lots of dirty water been flushed.
  • andysiaandysia June 2013
    Posts: 56
    Already salted to 0.3% ... will stop feeding ...

    Dilemma now is whether to change water, i.e. 20% per day ? Can't trust the incoming water anymore ... Existing pond water quality may be better than the new water???

    Hope that Syabas water is really up to mark & safe for Kois ...
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 June 2013
    Posts: 146
    will the high chlorine level in the pipe water from syabas caused the parking disease?
    izit possible for the syabas to increase the chlorine dosage due to haze recently ? just my 2cent =)
  • TaiFeiTaiFei June 2013
    Posts: 21
    The weird smell of the water from the pipe may come from the dissolved metal compounds. I've met one koi keeper in Taman Connaught who removes some of the oyster shells for a few hours (but his filter is still sufficient), slight push on aeration and let the PH stabilize hence make the water softer. Check the PH level from the water source before filling the pond, the PH level might have variations different times of the day.
    Post edited by TaiFei at 2013-06-25 11:07:32 pm
  • MfwleeMfwlee June 2013
    Posts: 355
    With all the rumblings about water shortage and the attending redirecting of water supply off and on, always carefully check our water before we pump them into our ponds / tanks.

    Got caught out by a chlorine spike last year and lost most of my 10+ year old koi. Would not have happened if I had bothered to check first. Over confidence is the killer here.
    Mike Lee
  • lautslauts June 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Don't fill direct to pond , if you have fiber use it to store incoming dechlor and check parameter before pumping to pond else like me make use of a cleaned sump chamber. Fill with tap water dechlor and circulate water with a pump. Check parameters before pumping back to pond. pH 8.5 still ok provided you don;t make like 50% water change. It is the other chemical like chlorine , ammonia maybe that worries me as i change 20% weekly. Chlorine bonds easier with ammonia in pond water forming dangerous stable chloramine , before get neutralise with antichlorine.

    ts
  • andysiaandysia June 2013
    Posts: 56
    Thanks for all the feedback.

    Never know that incoming water can fluctuate significantly in terms of parameters. This hobby is indeed very challenging (sweat)

    I guess what I can do now is to salt the pond and check the incoming water closely. Slowly do water change. Fingers crossed. Most fish still "parking" as at this morning due to the PH shock. :-(
  • kolampkolamp June 2013
    Posts: 222
    Yes incoming tap water parameters can varies according to time...u can get the highest pH circa (8.5-8.7 in Bangi/Kajang area) and the lowest pH value in the early morning (7.2-7.5)....kois can live up to pH9 as what I've read...I only realized my kois have been living in very acidic water (pH5.5-6.5) before I got my pH monitor LOL....most probably ur case is due to pH shock i guess due to several series of WC
  • FPSooFPSoo June 2013
    Posts: 370
    Hi,

    As long as the PH is not 9 or over, the fish will be able to adjust to this condition. To reduce it naturally, my advise is to reduce your fresh water input to 5% instead of 15% since your incoming is same as 8.5% , the waste of your fish will naturally balance the PH back lower but you need to monitor as lower than 6.5% is not health for fish.

    FP

  • andysiaandysia June 2013
    Posts: 56
    Bro Kolamp,

    My source of pipe water (according to Syabas) is the same as those in Kajang. No wonder the variation could be big from time to time.

    Mr. Soo,

    After salting the pond at 0.3%, my kois are not that stressed now ... able to swim around though sometimes still park at bottom. Will take your advise of smaller fresh water input (i.e. 5%) per change.

    Thanks!
  • TomyCTomyC June 2013
    Posts: 103
    Koi needs a stable environment to be healthy. It's good you stopped changing 20% everyday. That's too much for already stressed fishes. You may not even need to change that 5% daily since fishes are still trying to get used to so much new, but not ideal water.

    Have you cleaned the bottom of your filters?

    pH also fluctuates during the day, with the highest being at the hottest time of the day, and lowest at night. Measure the 2 to see if there's a concern on pH.

    I would increase aeration as much as possible to help clear out contaminants.
    Also to add in water conditioners like koi shield if you have not.
  • andysiaandysia June 2013
    Posts: 56
    Hi Tomy!

    My 5% water change is achieved through backflushing my filter chamber (dry chamber's volume = 5% of pond volume). I top up the water (pre-filtered by a carbon block filter) and add in water conditioners for the 5% volume (~300 litres - my pond is 6.2ton).

    Just to check with you is this a good practice if I do it everyday (if PH of my incoming water is found to be not stable)?

    Thanks!
  • TomyCTomyC June 2013
    Posts: 103
    Have you cleaned the rest of your filter chambers?

    What I'm saying is that the fishes were first stressed by something (X), then later stressed by too much water changes. You have yet to find X.
  • harryyewharryyew July 2013
    Posts: 396
    Good morning Bro andysia

    how now? Everything ok already?

    Cheers
  • andysiaandysia July 2013
    Posts: 56
    Bro Tomy was right that my thorough cleaning of filter chamber (replaced some J matt + added crystal bio) had first stressed my kois (salute to sifu ^:)^ ). Subsequently I tried to do bigger % water change but I was bad luck enough to experience high PH for incoming water. That shocked my kois for 2nd time.

    I immediately raised the salinity level to 0.5% and the next day kois started to swim around (no more parking symptom) although lethargic.

    Incoming water PH has now stabilised at 7-8 (previously >8.5). No more koi parking / flashing. I continue to change 5% of water on daily basis thru backflushing my filter chamber. I let the salinity reduce along with the water change

    I started to feed moderately (kois are hungrily looking for food now) and added bacteria starter to overcome the NPS process.
  • TomyCTomyC July 2013
    Posts: 103
    To be fair, I didn't know you replaced your bio filter media.

    Why did you replace your J mats btw?
    To clean your bio media chambers, just remove the media, and clean the gunk in the chamber You can shake your mats in water, but do not subject it to chlorine water as much as possible. Chlorine will kill the beneficial bacteria.

    Do clean the bio filter chambers regularly as well.
  • andysiaandysia July 2013
    Posts: 56
    Bro Tomy,

    I replaced my J mats bcos I was using cheapo type of mats (made in China) previously and they already showed signs of kaput (disintegration) after 2 years. My bad as I refused to invest in quality Jap Mats when I started my pond 2yrs ago.

    Lately, I have gotten more serious into this koi keeping hobby. After cleaning the filter chamber thoroughly, I now do daily backflushing of settlement chamber and 2nd chamber (brushes), a good practice that I supposed to carry out on daily basis before this. I also clean the brushes on weekly basis.

    Added crystal bio as recommended by forummers and koi dealer.

    Now, the mini crisis is over. It's actually kind of bad luck that thorough filter chamber cleaning (incl. replacement of bio media) coincided with big swing in incoming water PH. Luckily no casualty and kois have returned to their normal behavior.

    Still watching the ammonia & nitrite reading closely as I treat this as a startover of NPS.

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