Nitrite peak - advise please
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Hi bro and sis,

    Appreciate your advise while i am going through NPS. I have a very high nitrite value for sometime now ... Below are some background and details:

    Pond size L8'xW4'xD3'.
    Pond water volume = 96”x48”x34” = 156,672cu-inch = 2,567Liter
    Filter type: Laguna PF12000UVC
    Koi qty: 3 kois (10"-12"); 5 kois (5" to 7")
    Feeding amount: 30g/day (at 3 intervals)

    Started pond cycle (with 3kois initially) on 28/11/12. Have not done water test until recently, so no older data.

    29/12/12:
    pH: 7.4
    Ammonia: 0.25ppm
    Nitrite: 5.0ppm
    Nitrate: 5.0ppm
    Observation: water a bit cloudy, 2 kois lost appetite, body and fins seems to look ok.
    Action: change water (3" i.e abt 9%); add salt 340g; add S1, stop feeding.

    30/12/12:
    Observation: water slightly clearer, all kois appetite high
    Action: change water (3" i.e abt 9%); add salt 340g; feed 5g/day

    31/12/12:
    pH: 7.6
    Ammonia: 0.25ppm
    Nitrite: 5.0ppm
    Nitrate: 40.0ppm
    Observation: similar water clarity, all kois appetite high, body and fins seems to look ok.
    Action: feed 10g/day

    01/01/13:
    pH: NA
    Ammonia: 0.25ppm
    Nitrite: 5.0ppm
    Nitrate: 20 to 40 ppm (in between color spectrum)
    Observation: similar water clarity, all kois appetite high, body and fins seems to look ok..
    Action: change water (3" i.e abt 9%); add salt 340g; feed 20g/day

    Should i just give it more time? how about feeding schedule? Let me know if you need more info.

    Again appreciate comments and advise.

    Zul

  • IzrulIzrul January 2013
    Posts: 715
    Try biozyme.it reduce the nitrite and keeps water crystal clear.
    Its a bacteria starter.use biozyme enhancer will tackle nirite in two days
  • idrisidris January 2013
    Posts: 1,182
    Bro since u mention you are facing NPS, no2 won't be clear in two days...

    What you should do is change water 15 % daily, add salt and set it too 0.2%...no need s1.. Salt will offset the no2 while water change will delute ammonia content..feed your kois normally...

    Depends on filter setup...NPS will be over within 2 to 4 weeks...

    P/s..I feed my kois twice the volume then I feed when I pond I stable...
  • idrisidris January 2013
    Posts: 1,182
    Pond water volume = 96”x48”x34” = 156,672cu-inch = 2,567Liter

    Since u already mention your pond volume, put salt at least 5 kg to increase the salt level to 0.2%..maintain this salt level everyday until NPS is over..the best is to get salt meter...

    Do not put any medication since your kois is not sick..it's only because water condition...

    Using biozyme like izrul suggest is one of a good way to do..
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    thanks will try that ...
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    During initial pond commissioning in Nov 12, i have added about 2.5kg of blue salt (they say it has higher concentration).

    I will top up salt up to 0.15% according to amount of water changed.

    Like you said, i need a salt meter. Will get some biozyme also.

    Thanks Bros
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar January 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Idris is right, based on the data given, ur current pond salinity should b at 0.11%. U can safely add 5 kg salt

    When u change water 15%(about 5" height of water), just add in 1 kg salt. It should do the trick until ur NPS is over. Just buy the rock salt from sundry shop. It should b cheaper

    Gud luck bro :)
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur January 2013
    Posts: 808
    Bro Boertokoi,
    What test kit you use, you data is a bi confusing, normally when nitrate stabilze, ammonia and nitrite should be 0, maybe you mis interpreting the color chat.

    Please take photo of the measurement tube with color chart in the back in well lit area
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Bro Harry,

    I am using API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) test kit. Yup, i am a bit puzzled as well. color chart between 2ppm to 5ppm of Nitrite is a bit challenging to read from. However, for the readings i have taken above i am positive it is closer to 5ppm in the color chart. In fact have asked my HM to help verify as well ... :)

    Another fact i just remembered ... i cleaned my fountain a day before i start testing for ammonia, nitrite etc. Not sure that has a negative effect to my pond water.

    I have done more water change with salt. Will do some test this evening ... will update dev.

    Thanks bro for your advise.
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    When in doubt, a partial water change will buy me some thinking / observing time - but I am a bit puzzled why you limit it to only 9% ? On my part, I went through the NPS period with 15 - 20% daily changes where I dechlorinated the tap water in a separate tank, siphoned off the water from the main F/G tank ( same size as yours ), and then pumped the newly treated water back in with an electric pump.
    Yes, I also have trouble with reading some of the charts and so I rely on the danger colors only. e.g. API Ammonia - yellow is fine, but be careful if there is a greenish tinge, API Nitrite - you want a blue, and any purplish tinge is bad. Our target is 0 ( means that the small amount present cannot be read by our test kits ) for both Ammonia and Nitrite - so anything else will be a compromise and has to be fixed quick.
    Hang in there ... we all go through the same NPS challenge every now and then. :)
    Mike Lee
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Hi Mike,
    I just thought 9-10% is enough. Today i have done 6"(18%) water change with salt as per advise from friends here.

    Thanks for your tips on the color chart.
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    No prob ... I am sure that any of us would have found it a pleasure to be of assistance. :)
    When you have time while waiting for things to settle, try to read up ( if you havent already ) on what is going on with the water in your tank. Would be very useful for you to understand what bro harry_luhur was commenting about in his

    " ... your data is a bit confusing, normally when nitrate stabilze, ammonia and nitrite should be 0, "

    This is the cornerstone for all of us " water keepers " as we work towards enjoying and sharing a very rewarding hobby.
    Welcome to the club, and my best wishes of the season to you and all loved ones at home.


    Mike Lee
  • ikankoikauikankoikau January 2013
    Posts: 1,053
    Hi bro Mike,
    Just hang in there. The safe target is just to get the Ammonia to zero as your PH level is harmful with Ammonia present. Salt can offset nitrite well. You need to have salinity test. Its recommended to have one.

    Just follow what our bros have suggested here. Actually with partial water change of 15 to 20% daily and salt level between 0.1 to 0.3%, everything will fall on nicely with normal or even heavy feeding. If your reading continue as above for another week, maybe the bacteria media is insufficient for the amount of feeding. Good luck bro.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur January 2013
    Posts: 808
    Bro Boer,

    I just doing test using API tester, and i quite simple compare to sera or tetra, and result quite accurate. Some hobbyist may have trouble in using he chart, i basicly put test tube in front of the chart, if i can see the other color (green over my yellow test tube color) then my reading is one step lower, meaning in yellow area. The same apply for nitrite and nitrate reading.

    With 40mg of nitrate reading, it mean both bacteria is live. High ammonia or nitrite may resulted from small water volume after feeding, but rarely happen since circulation will convert it once it pass bio media.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Bro Harry,

    Thank you for your time doing the benchmark.

    I have done water test again and believe the nitrite has gone down to 2ppm - lighter purple (was at 5ppm 2 days ago - darker purple on the API chart. I attached the pics to seek advise from all bro sifu ... i am still crawling [-O<
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/11298/Nitrite.jpg
    Attachments
    Nitrite.jpg 159K
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    The nitrate ...
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/11299/Nitrate.jpg
    Attachments
    Nitrate.jpg 121K
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    and zero ammonia ..
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/11300/Ammonia.jpg

    Any comments are most welcome ...
    Attachments
    Ammonia.jpg 172K
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    I would check the parameters of your dechlorinated raw water source. If there is nothing unusual, then the " Nitrogen Cycle " that occurs in our ponds will result in a reduction of your Nitrite readings ( little ammonia to be converted ), leading to a reduction in your Nitrate readings as well ( little Nitrite to convert )
    Keeping your tank well aerated, salted, moderate feeding, and 15 - 20% daily ( dechlorinated ) water changes should see some continued improvement of your readings over the next few days / weeks.
    Just try to make sure that the parameters are progressing in the correct direction - and make larger water changes ( I have changed 50% in an emergency without any ill effects ) if you see someting undesireable.
    I hope that I am not wrong - but you appear to be well on your way !
    Mike Lee
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Thanks Mike,
    what is the typical value of Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite of tap water?
  • MfwleeMfwlee January 2013
    Posts: 355
    In my house,
    Ammonia - not detectable
    Nitrite - not detectable
    Nitrate - between 0 and 5.0
    Has been like this for many years.
    Mike Lee
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur January 2013
    Posts: 808
    Bro Boertokoi,

    When did you take your reading? There is a reduce in nitratee and nitrite,it seem like reducing production of ammonia, nitrite reading still high, are you add bacteeria starter in your pond?
    And like Bro Mike suggested, pleasee do check source water do.

    Please add another brand of bacteria starter to start up, do 10-20% water changes daily and add bacterria starter 10-20% from normal dosage and keep checking the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Bro Harry,

    took the reading last evening, after i have added Biozyme (for about 3 to 4hrs).

    This morning i have done water change and increase the bacteria starter dose as suggested.

    I am using Laguna filter (the pressurised cylindrical filter), is it ok if i just add the bacteria starter directly into the pond or my waterfall basin? Can the bacteria finds its way to bioballs inside the filter? or do i need to open up the filter and pour it inside?

    Will check pond and source water this evening.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur January 2013
    Posts: 808
    Bro boertokoi,

    Try to find OCEAN FREE bacterian starter 8000 liquid on, i think easily can find in singapore and malaysia. This quite good bacterria starter and cheap too. I have many bacteria starter, and so far happy with this one compare to more expnsive one. Just put in a bucket of water and aeratted it for 15 minutes, the foam will come out, just let it, put in pond. Afterthat can pour in your canister filter and on pond. Adding daily 10-20% evryday for 3-7days in a row
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • boertokoiboertokoi January 2013
    Posts: 67
    Bro Harry,

    I have bought Biozyme 100, perhaps should continue with it. Appreciate your info on Ocean Free 8000 (noted).
    As of today (3rd day using Biozyme 100) and ~20% water change, water readings improving in the right direction (Amm 0; Nitrite; 0.25; Nitrate 20; pH 7.6). Salinity 0.15. Normal feeding rate.

    Thanks Bro and All for your help.

    (Y)

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