Foam And Bubbles
  • ogonmizuogonmizu December 2012
    Posts: 22
    Sifu's out there, there has been a lot of foam and bubbles forming in my pond recently.
    Any clues on why is it forming and how to tackle the problem?
    This the first time I am experiencing the problem.
  • niveknivek December 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Foam and bubbles can be due to the use of salt or your water is too thick (partial water change required)
  • MfwleeMfwlee December 2012
    Posts: 355
    My own experience is to approach it from 2 directions.

    1. Something is causing air bubbles inside the water beyond what was normal.
    2. Something is delaying the bubbles from popping at the surface of the water.

    In the first case - test the water - are my parameters ok ? - is it a problem with my filter ? have I neglected to flush it recently ? have I been over feeding recently ? Have I added a water treatment ? - salt is one of them. Have I added more fish ? Is the water that is too old / tired ? Are my air pumps / air stones still functioning properly ? etc.

    In the second - have I recently changed the koi food ? Look for an oily look at the surface as this tends to sustain bubbles and delay their normal popping. Some food are more oily than others. Look also for any possible external contamination - I have always dreaded the time when the authorities coma along to fog for mosquitos.

    I would do a partial water change to immediately improve matters - but if it persists, then I would need to look for the root cause. Cannot run away from this. :)
    Mike Lee
  • ShukriShukri December 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Mfwlee,
    In my experience, it is the increase in TDS and DOC. Most of the time because we feed more but inadequate change of water and the lack of frequency of the water change. The waste products due to feeding (ad times over feeding) will cause the water to be thick. Adding salt and refresh powder can also cause foam and extra bubbles.

    Also but rare, if all the fishes are sick or not comfortable with the water quality, they could secret substance and/or shed their mucous layer i.e. could also influence the water texture..........

    A sudden bloom of micro organisms in the water could also create havoc with the water texture..........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-12-22 07:26:05 pm
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur December 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Ogon,

    Your question is answered by our friends here. I just want to add something.
    1. DOC (dissolved organic compound) is the source of thick water, it will make bubble difficult to burst when reach surface and make them stick together. Regular daily water change may help but actually cannot maintain the water thickness at all time, only after water changes.
    2. Adding salt will create smaller bubbles which easier to stick together and form a large area or foamy surface. The higher your salt content (salinity) the smaller the bubble.
    3. Waterfall create bubble and when bubble rise got hit by it, create a smaller and smaller bubbles and stick together. If your water fall not fall straight down at 90 degree, or there is water movement this can move the bubble, avoid it being hit by water fall to create smaller bubbles.

    Many hobbyist don't realize the danger of thick water, because this actually the major source for ammonia. If you put a coagulant substance tto bind it to bigger particles, you will be surprise to see how much it is. Thick water also irritate the koi gill, and make them easier infected by gill problem. And finally you will have a higher nitrate level, although you clean your filter regularly.

    Cleaning filter regularly and waterchange may help a lot, or using foam fractionator can help to reduce and maintain your water thickness. Fish waste and uneaten food trap in japmat will dissolved bit by bit to water column, so regularly cleanning media is a good practice.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • pandaipandai December 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro @ogonmizu,

    I think in terms of checklist of sources of the problem, all the sifus have covered everything up there. But for you to determine the cause yourself, you just need to answer one question; what have I done differently to my pond recently? Or what is it that I regularly do but have not done recently? This will help the troubleshooting process.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • IzrulIzrul December 2012
    Posts: 715
    Well said bro @pandai....
    Must be some glitches there...
  • ogonmizuogonmizu December 2012
    Posts: 22
    I didn't add salt or any other stuff to my pond recently.
    One thing I have been doing is feeding them heavily to bulk them.
    Filter chambers are all clean.
  • MfwleeMfwlee December 2012
    Posts: 355
    " One thing I have been doing is feeding them heavily to bulk them." - looks like a temporary overload of your filters ?

    Partial water change will remedy matters immediately - and frequent changes if you still are trying to bulk them will help.

    Also as Bro Shukri has drawn attention to - do a search on TDS and DOC.
    Mike Lee
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-12-22 07:26:18 pm
  • ShukriShukri December 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro, I meant TDS...........Total Dissolved Solids.......not TDO.....typo error.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • DAVIDSOONDAVIDSOON December 2012
    Posts: 262
    <blockquote rel="ogonmizu">Sifu's out there, there has been a lot of foam and bubbles forming in my pond recently.
    Any clues on why is it forming and how to tackle the problem?
    This the first time I am experiencing the problem.</blockquote>

    For a normal running pond , sudden increase in foam and bubble activity in pond usually point to only one thing ..... SPAWNING or fish releasing eggs in the water column . Do your pond also throw out a foul fishy smell lately ?? Check out for orange speck around the pond edges and you might be able to spot some spread of dried eggs ... they are tiny weeny in size .

    David

    The Best is Yet to Come .
  • ShukriShukri December 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Come to think of it, it is very true what David has said as it has happened to me twice.......Yup! the give aways are the sight of the eggs and the foul smell.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-12-22 11:18:48 pm
  • MfwleeMfwlee December 2012
    Posts: 355
    Yes, it has also happened to me a few times - but it was preceded by a high level of pond activity that gave me a warning as to what was going on.
    The biggest problem was to get rid of the mess afterwards. Had to flush everything for a few days and nearly gave up on having female Koi.
    Mike Lee
  • tomtrantomtran February 2013
    Posts: 19
    I noticed that during the day..very little foam, but when i check in the early morning there are lot of foaming, clear big bubblea around the sides of the pond.
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar February 2013
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Tom,
    The foam is due to many reasons:
    1) Salting in the pond - No Harm
    2) High TDS - Reduce feeding rate and increase water top up
    - You may also increase aeration in the pond which would increase foam in the
    beginning, eventually would reduce the foams. Remember to remove this
    foams immediately :)
  • lautslauts February 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Hi Tom,

    Do check that your kois have enough 02 at night. Could be due to kois taking in o2 near surface? Also it is normal for more foam developing at night compared to the day , if you run a FF ( Foam Fractioner) you would notice this .

    ts
  • tomtrantomtran February 2013
    Posts: 19
    I have a large air pump that have 6 outlets, making lot of bubbles. All pumps and air pump are running 24/7

    i honestly think it's over stocking the tank and water quality is not good. I have a surface skimmer, its supposed to suck all those bubbles in.
  • jindark12jindark12 March 2013
    Posts: 5
    maybe a protein skimmer (foam fractioners) can help you...
  • MikeMike March 2013
    Posts: 346
    Im having the same problem here, bubbles foaming in my pond (0 salt). Just got my hand on a TDS and it read 400 ppm, main water source is 44ppm. After changing 10% of water the reading drops to 340ppm.

    Agree that reduce feeding and frequent water change will help but I guess installing a FF is the solution.

    Lauts,
    Could you share the TDS level of your pond before and after installing the FF.

    Some info of my pond
    Fully indoor pond, 11.5T
    Ammonia 0
    Nitrite 0
    Nitrate 80
    0 salt
    PH 7.8
    Two blower - 120 to main pond and 80 to bio chamber

    Cheers
    Post edited by Mike at 2013-03-21 02:04:13 pm
  • lautslauts March 2013
    Posts: 1,248
    Hi Mike,

    I think FF would not do much for your TDS level . But can't recall the TDS before and after my FF so long ago. FF helps with foaming and water surface appearance, give a rippling crisp water look.
    You need to do higher % ( 15-20%) water changes and more frequently to tackle high TDS. But most importantly try tracing reason for high TDS. Residual medication and salt are likely common cause also overuse of antichlorine. It takes a long time to reign in high TDS and 400 is quite high considering source on 40ppm. My source water TDS is abt 40+ ppm , pond TDS abt high 60 to low 70. I do 15-20% water change once a week. Low feeding now.

    Mike suggest do a one time 50% water change, wash all the filters ( 50% biofilter) then another week do another 50% water change ( now wash balance biofilters). Stop feeding for a day after washing. Try to dechlor the tap water in a big container , QT tank etc and let sit few hours before the change . This to minimise stress on koi since water change is very big. Else do more smaller change like 30% etc.

    You and Nicole enjoy the filter wash ya :-D :-D

    ts
  • MikeMike March 2013
    Posts: 346
    Darn ... I was hoping that a FF is the solution.

    Looks like back to hardwork eh TS

    Thanks for the idea.
  • niveknivek March 2013
    Posts: 1,251
    How about increasing daily trickle to 15% water volume?
  • MikeMike March 2013
    Posts: 346
    Nivek, you speak my mind out. I have increase the drip since this morning and the reading just now is 300ppm compare with yeaterday nite which is 340.

    Anyhow, is increasing the water change the only way to lower down TDS.
  • wasabi8888wasabi8888 March 2013
    Posts: 42
    May I know what TDS and FF means?
    Post edited by wasabi8888 at 2013-03-24 01:33:01 am
  • gerrygerry March 2013
    Posts: 777
    TDS = Total dissolved solids
    FF = Foam fractioner

    :)
  • ta5851ta5851 March 2013
    Posts: 50
    Do u have surface skimmer installed? If u have, increase the water turnover and more surface water will be pull from the surface and the foam reduce. for my case, I use to have a lot of foam on the surface when my pond is new, but after some time, the problems gone. If the surface water pulling is not strong, u can reduce the bottom drain opening slightly by putting the cover with smaller hole. when more water from the surface is remove and hence less foam is forming.

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