URGENT HELP PLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    HI GUYS.NEW HERE TO THIS LOVELY FORUM.

    FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS MY KOI POND WATER HAS TURN CLOUDY AND VISIBILITY IS ALMOST ZERO.
    I CAN'T SEE MY KOI FISHES ANYMORE.MY POND IS AROUND 40 TANS.

    I HAVE CLEANED MY FILTER AND ADDED BACTERIA STARTER TO RECOVER MY POND BUT WITHOUT ANY RESULT.
    I HAVE ALSO ADDED ACTIVATED CARBON TO REMOVE ANY CHEMICALS IN THE WATER.

    MY FILTER:
    1) JAP MAT 30 PIECES
    2) BRUSHES 50PIECES
    3) CORALS 80KG
    4) BIO RINGS 80KG
    5) CARBON 40KG

    IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY TO IMPROVE MY WATER CLARITY ????

    PLEASE GUYS AN URGENT RESPOND WILL HELP.

    REGARDS TO THE KOI COMMUNITY.
  • mangkellmangkell November 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    Welcome to KA Bro Ashino,

    Water cloudy normally associate with inadequate mechanical filtration...

    But 30pcs Jap mat for 40MT water should be more than sufficient... :-?

    Any photo of yr pond & the filter chamber?

    Your location please? Heavy rain there?

    Pls give as much data for us to analyse... Tq
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Hi Bro,

    Welcome to the forum. Where are you located?

    1) How long is your pond been running?
    2) Is it newly build or take over from precious owner?
    3) How many koi's in the pond?
    4) What is ur water parameters like ammonia/ nitrate/ nitrite? pH, water temp?
    5) the filter media looks ok but what is the setup? 1st chamber?, 2 nod chamber?


    All the above will help the sifu's here to help you

    Cheers,
    Tk
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Oshino,
    Cloudy water could be due to many reasons. From your pond filtration list, you didnt indicate any usage of UV light info such as type, location and age. Normally green water could be mistaken for cloudy water. Normally even after you hv cleaned the filter and the water still cloudy, single cell algae could be the problem. Photos will be good.

    Regards
  • tswerntswern November 2012
    Posts: 132
    Bro oshino,

    Welcome. Calm down a bit and try not to type all in CAPS.
    Photos will be good. As for the cloud, is it white or green?
    In addition how deep is your pond and is it indoor or outdoor? :)

    Rgds,
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    First thing always - check your water perimeters. Ammonia, Nitrite, and pH are the minimum mandatory tests to be made. We can then make constructive advice based on the results.

    If your pond is already seasoned ( after the new tank syndrome has passed ), then a sudden cloudiness can also signify a filter that is dying. Check for a pH crash, chlorine accidentally put in with untreated tap water, other external contamination. This is serious.

    Wish you all the best - but yell if you need further help.
    :)
    Mike Lee
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    Should have added - if it is a new pond, then there is a normal phase where the water will get cloudy before it clears up. Just keep on checking the Ammonia, Nitrite and pH levels to make sure that the fish will be ok.
    Mike Lee
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Guys I will upload the photos a bit later.

    pH is around 8.
    Ammonia is in safe level.
    The pond is 3 feet deep.
    I have around 25 koi.

    It is an outdoor pond and around 2 years.Totally exposed to sunlight and rain.
    And ya it has been raining heavily around here.

    The colour of the water is not green as
    this eliminates the possibility of algae cell.

    I turned off UV light as I have just added few bottles of beneficial bacteria in my pond.
    The UV light may just kill of all the Beneficial Bacteria.Is it TRUE?

    1st chamber brushes
    2 chamber bio ring + corals
    3 chamber jap mat
    4 chamber carbons
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    And I forget to mention that my pond had a pH crash 5 days ago.
    It was at pH 9!!!!
    After a few days ph dropped back to 8.
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    I really don't know what is happening guys.
    Feel like just giving up.
  • farikfarik November 2012
    Posts: 317
    bro oshino,
    where r u situated? maybe one of the sifus can drop by to give u some input....don't give up....take it one step at a time....there will be a solution in every problem bro...
  • tswerntswern November 2012
    Posts: 132
    Some of those bacterias that float around might be zapped by the UV light if exposed long enough. But those that cling on to the filter media and the rest should be ok.

    For aquarium tanks when it kickstart, normal to have milky white water. I suspect could be the same scenario with ponds.

    Dear sifus,

    Kind of hard to google now with Blackberry, but at a ph9 for prolong periods, do most bacterias die?

    Ok, a newbie stab in the dark here. If most bact die, could it be opossible the pond is experiencing NPS again?

    Also, did you recently add in new coral/oyster shells?
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Recently I added new 45kg of bio ring in my filter.
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    @bro farik

    Bro I live in Seremban.Any sifu's around here.
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Is your bio ring the ceramic type and did you wash it before adding to your filter chamber?
  • farikfarik November 2012
    Posts: 317
    Aisay, that means the N9 team could get another member....in seremban you're lucky to have sifu captain borman expertise but he is quite busy flying here and there....maybe you can get bro idris to help you as bro idris also has gone through a lot and he also is in seremban and also has the privilage to get a helping hand from Captain borman.Calling,calling bro idris....sos from bro oshino....

  • tswerntswern November 2012
    Posts: 132
    Could it be TDS high and ceramic stuff and residue newly added but can't dissolve anymore? Bit unique to have outdoor pond exposed to rain yet ph high (unless new pond) :)
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    If you still have the time, have a look here - http://www.kentkoiponds.com/PWaterQuality.html
    It may help you work out what actually transpired in your pond since the " crash ".

    In the meantime - watch out for your Ammonia levels - a high pH plus high Ammonia levels are very dangerous to your fish.


    Mike Lee
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Yup my bio ring is the ceramic type.
    And I didn't pre wash the new bio ring before I put it in my filter.
    Could it be cause for my high pH.
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Unwashed ceramic bio rings can cause water turning cloudy especially since you have 80kg of it. Not sure about raising ph though.
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-11-18 07:46:01 pm
  • idrisidris November 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    Bro oshino...pm me hand phone number plz...
  • mrkoimrkoi November 2012
    Posts: 496
    Dear oshino,

    Ceramic bio rings with increase your ph. I think that the cause of your rising ph and the cloudy water. You should pre-wash it 1st. before use.
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Looks like from Serembam Duo become Seremban Trio :-D
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    He is in safe hands now. :)
    Mike Lee
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    Sifu idris in action :)
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur November 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Oshino,

    A detail pond, filtration, stocked koi size, feeding and maintenance procedure might help us to analyze the situation than do wild guess. Normally heavy rain may cause imbalanced pond parameters cause fish to stress. But never suddenly cloud your water, also adding bioring may cause water cloudy, but may clear up in few hours.

    A recent pH crash also not affect your bio filtersince your ammonia and nitrite still in safe level. I see u adding activated carbon, do you also clean it first? Activated carbon, cannot be totally clean, but if the ashes is not clean, it can change water color. Some low grade coconut shell activted carbon can caused this. Use calgon (USA) or stick activated carbon is preferable.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • idrisidris November 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    No sifu lah..just sharing newbie experience..hehe
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Bro Idris
    I have pm my hp number to you
    Regards
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Guys I have flushed out 70% of the water out.
    Added in new water yet still water not clearing up.
    What the hell is going wrong.The cloudy water does not seem to be going away.
  • idrisidris November 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    bro...can u do something first...use a mineral water bottle fillup directly from tap water..let it be for 10 min..monitor is it cloudy or not...myself and captain borman had encounter same problem before..at last we found out main water source is the problem..the trick is to stop incoming water, heavy aeration and it will clear up in 3 to 4 days..BTW-got your PM
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi there Bro oshino,
    I just got back from 4 days fishing trip. Being reading about your situation. You have been keeping kois for 2 years as per what I have read.

    Do not panic and stay calm and relax.......

    Apparently, things went haywire after you have added the ceramic bio rings into your pond. You mentioned that you had a pH crash before, and this could be probably from the constant heavy rain these days. About the pH being as high as 9, this is pretty high Bro!

    Please re collect back what are the new things that you have done to the pond......is it only adding the ceramic bio rings? Did you also now only that you have turn off the UV light?

    What was the water parameters before all these fiasco?

    Also check the pH of your source water.......

    My recommendation is for you to retract back what you have done, and go back to the situation that all were OK before. It is good that you do a MAJOR water change but not an abrupt amount in a short time.......do the % that you are most comfortable with, with the water change. Take out all the ceramic bio rings, and turn on the UV light.

    BTW, what was the reason for you to add ceramic bio rings to your chambers?

    Are your kois experiencing any negative side effects or symptoms?

    You can call me on my 012 3900220 if you want to discuss the matter further...........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-11-19 10:42:22 am
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    yeah,spot on bro idris..maybe the source is the culprit..
    also i think need to take out all ceramic bio rings,put all in one pail and wash thoroughly..
    do u have biozyme?it works for me to tackle the cloudy water.
    put biozyme and biozyme enhancer ( u can get from atarikoi taman desa) and it works wonders with water clarity.
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    since sifu shukri is back...you're in good hands now bro oshino :)
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    maybe need to look at the carbons as well..it usually turns water to cloudy..
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    @bro Shukri
    I added the bio rings to increase the bacteria growth in my pond.
  • kolampkolamp November 2012
    Posts: 222
    Bro oshino,
    Major wc is really helpful in ur situation but make sure u monitor or temporary close the pond surface to avoid jumping koi due to drastic change in water parameter....and next time don't forget to wash any bio rings or media u going to put in ur pond to avoid headache...me too learned it the hard way #:-s
  • idrisidris November 2012
    Posts: 1,182
    just spoke to bro oshino just now..below are some info..

    pond- already 2 years and not covered at all
    ammonia- 1ppm( maybe from 0.5 to 5ppm)
    PH- 9
    No2- dont know. no tester
    No3- no tester
    ammonia spike due to major filter cleaning..maybe the procedure is wrong that kill all the bacteria
    oyster shell- dont have

    cloudy water problem- this happend after mr oshino install some bio rings...mr oshino also said the incoming water is a bit cloudy and come with some sendiments..(same experience by myself and captain before although we have a big pre filter + small filter)..

    Suggestion to solve mr oshino problem
    1. stop feeding
    2. took out bio rings
    3. partially change water to delute the ammonia level
    4. once the ammonia is "0", stop incoming drip water and wait for 2,3 days with heavy aeration..
    5. Shopping time!!! have to buy salt, No2, No3, salt tester...oyster shell and bacteria enhancer...
    6. Test for No2, if No2 present, add salt 0.2%-0.3% to offset the No2..

    Mr. oshino will took the video of cloudy water and post to us..
    why i asked mr. oshino to took out bio rings? well this is due to this problem start right after he put the bio rings..dont know whether it works, but just using logic..huhu

    hope sifu can add my newbie suggestion...

  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Good Bro Idris,

    Maybe you want to check the how long the UV been used as the lifespan for UV +/- 6 months.
    Moreover, for 40 ton pond, maybe 2 X 40w UV is needed, not sure how many used now

  • ashfaqashfaq November 2012
    Posts: 799
    Brothers, same kind of problem happened with me yesterday, i changed water 90% from my FGT(indoor) and it was crystal clear until i sleep say around 2AM midnight, when i awaked at 8Am, i found my water little cloudy like some one mix small amount of milk, its little white in color. Dont know whats the problem , everything is good.


    I dont think, bio rings will be culprit on this, some thing other than this, may be fish produced something, as i witnessed water crystal clear until 2AM midnight and i changed water at sunday morning at 12noon?
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • NeliNeli November 2012
    Posts: 1,205
    I would like to ask, is PH crush not when The PH goes too low...
    Can PH crush be when it goes up also?
    Bro @Shukri,
    What is your code for the phone, in case I want to call U one day?
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    To me, pH Crash is when the pH drops drastically to the smaller numbers and the water becomes acidic very fast. The bio filter dies, and the fish soon follow.
    The article I referred to points at a situation where the pH then starts to climb alarmingly after a crash has taken place. This was my concern when I first read the thread, but I now have no way of telling because a number of changes were done to the pond / filter at around the same time.
    If the cloudiness was simply because of contamination by the new filter material - then rinsing the stuff with pond water and a small water change would have been sufficient to tackle the problem of cloudy water.
    Glad that matters are now in hand - I am sure that it got many of us worried for a while !
    Mike Lee
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Oshino,
    I am leaving for Paris tonight then to LA. Hopefully I can pay a visit to your pond after I get back. I will check with Bro Idris on your pond's progress.
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Thanks guys for the support
  • NeliNeli November 2012
    Posts: 1,205
    Good! I thought I did not get what PH crush means.
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Guys, is there any difference between local koi's and Japanese koi's?
    Post edited by oshino at 2012-11-20 07:30:02 pm
  • NeliNeli November 2012
    Posts: 1,205
    yes!
    quality and price wise!
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    A lot of difference bro...from size,colour,pattern...
    You need bro idris poison la...bro take our bro oshino to gosanke tmn desa / yamakoshi.. :-))
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    " Guys, is there any difference between local koi's and Japanese koi's ? "

    Have a look around the forum - there have been many discussions on the question. One of my take outs is " Yes " - but the differences only become significantly more noticeable as your fish grow.
    As for me, I still have a few locals which I have not yet culled - and maybe it is my perception only - but the locals seem to behave like gangsters at feeding time when compared to their more gentle Japanese cousins !!! Perception only ? - dunno - but I am in no hurry to separate them so long as they provide me with enjoyment.
    Oops - should also point out - I am a " Pond " person, not a " Show " person. This will make a huge difference.
    Have a search in " Koi Appreciation " and a few others.

    How's your pond now - everything back to normal ? :)
    Mike Lee
  • oshinooshino November 2012
    Posts: 13
    Yup getting back to normal.
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    That is good to hear. Well done to all those who helped.
    My challenge starts tomorrow. I was earlier given notice of a TNB scheduled power cut for almost the whole day. I would have stressed koi and dead filters by then.
    Have connected my trusty gen set for the pond pumps, and rushed out to buy a cheapie for my own comfort. The fellas have been starved since yesterday, and I have set aside 200 gallons of treated water to use as a trickle - and also bought more petrol to feed the thirsty gen sets.
    TNB - now try to do your worst !
    All I need now is for some clown to come along with his mosquito fogging machine at the same time.
    There will be blood on the floor. 8-)
    Mike Lee
  • archonarchon November 2012
    Posts: 25
    WOW.
    You are really well prepared.
    Good to see koi enthusiast like you around.
    Really inspires me.
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    The TNB guys were fantastic - kept me informed- and even finished 1 hour ahead of schedule !
    As for emergency cheapo portable gen sets - think twice before you invest in a Yangke Jaya YK9501. Get the fella to start it in front of you - my neighborhood dogs almost fainted when I started up this morning.
    My Honda which costs more than double has delivered 9+ years of service and is still purring away.
    Mike Lee
  • tswerntswern November 2012
    Posts: 132
    bro Mfwlee,

    Got Honda model number, price and location to get :P?

  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    Honda 10i - max 1000 VA, price together with some minor wiring, connectors, etc. ( I think ) was RM1200 or thereabouts. Remember though that this was many years ago.
    Bought in a shop in Pasar Road, Kuala Lumpur - cannot remember the name of the shop - but the guy also does pumps for ponds.
    One other advantage - it has a sump for the oil - so you do not need to blend in the 50:1 ratio 2T.
    Mike Lee

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