new bought local koi
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10540/20121110_092559.jpg

    newly bought, although it is not a gud koi but i lik the pattern of her =)
    what shud i name her ?
    godan kohaku ?
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    It's good la bro. Unique head and body pattern. But it got long head with short body. Not sure how the body will progress. Elastic beni but needs good care to consolidate the sashi.
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    thanks for the comment =D
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083

    <blockquote rel="ikankoikau">It's good la bro. Unique head and body pattern. But it got long head with short body. Not sure how the body will progress. Elastic beni but needs good care to consolidate the sashi. </blockquote>

    Capt. @ikankoikau, any specific method of care to consolidate sashi?

    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro k0kwa1,
    If you look closely, the head area is big with a relatively small and short body...
    When looking at Tosais, try not to look at the pattern first. If you do this, you will
    be drowned with the pattern that you will eventually forget about the body.....

    I am just being frank, and hope you do not find me offensive........
    I am just sharing and giving you tips.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • tswerntswern November 2012
    Posts: 132
    Name it GOKU?
    Is it first on the culling list? :p
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    bro shukri , means must see the body 1st b4 the pattern ?
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro k0kwa1,
    Allow me to be busy body to chip in by answering your question which you hv directed to bro Shukri :) There thousands tossai sold every season. When you buy a tossai, you got to ask yourself a few questions like what is your budget, what is your objective(pond or show fish), your preference, your pond size and etc.

    If you want your pond to have good quality kois only, you got to be choosy and your budget must be able to suit the price. If you have limited budget(like me) and want good kois only, you will realize that there will not be many koi available. That's why you got to stay up pass midnite waiting for the dealer's shipment to arrive :-D

    Sorry, for the long around the bush story. The thing is, to buy a good koi, you must look everything, the body, skin quality and the pattern. When buying tossai, I also look at the pattern very seriously. Then the skin quality. For the body, I just avoid short body or deformed body as it is not much you can tell from a small koi. If the pattern is so good but very short body, I will pass. If the pattern is so good but kiwa and sashi is messy, I will also pass. But looking for good pattern, good quality and good body will cost us a bomb. So with our budget, try to stretch as much as possible to gain all this values in a single koi.

    Bro Pandai,
    Only 3 methods to consolidate sashi, which are Good Water, Good Water and Good Water :-D How to get good water? Then you have to go thru the whole dictionary on how to keep good water. But of course a few things that even good water couldn't help such as genetic factor and weak sashi which extended more than 2 scales. But theory has suggested that low TDS and lower PH(in good low range) will promote good beni and shiroji which directly related to sashi for having beni on shiroji. To achieve this, another chapter of koi dictionary needs to be referred to :-D

    Of course some will go for cosmetic surgery as this is not a normal practice to most hobbyist. This is another chapter of koi keeping where guys with the surgery set know better :-D

    So just for consolidating sashi, so many dictionary needs to be referred to. This hobby is not easy bro. How the hell I got into this banghead
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Or just go for nisai for a little bit more (not comparing against show kois here). Less guessing game and the cost/risk associated to bringing up your tosais to nisais would have already offset the nisai price :)
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    <blockquote rel="Shukri">Bro k0kwa1,
    If you look closely, the head area is big with a relatively small and short body...
    When looking at Tosais, try not to look at the pattern first. If you do this, you will
    be drowned with the pattern that you will eventually forget about the body.....

    I am just being frank, and hope you do not find me offensive........
    I am just sharing and giving you tips.......</blockquote>

    Beneficial stuff coming from Captain Borman.....
    An old sifu taught me that when you look at a Tosai, there are signs and configurations that are tell tales on how the fish will be in the future........Some I have shared in a few discussions before.

    I guess no two hobbyists are the same when come to choosing a Tosai. I choose based on the fish potential when they grow up, and will choose based on the future of the Tosai with the ZNA criteria; 50% Body, 30% Color and Skin Quality, and 20% Pattern.

    The best scenario will be that the Tosai we identified will have the best body, even color plates & the sharpest of kiwas and fantastic sashis with eye pleasing pattern when they grow up.......

    In the end, it is a matter of taste.......which one will appeal to you.......for example:- A grown up koi with...........

    1. fantastic Body Conformation, with average color & skin quality and so so pattern or
    2. normal body with flawless skin and very good color and so so pattern or
    3. normal body with average color & skin quality but fantastic eye catching pattern

    Take a pick? I personally will choose option 1 as to me pattern is subjective and a matter of taste. A 3 step Kohaku versus a fantastic Inazuma.......which one is better? Many hobbyists like the Inazuma, but many 3 steps win in major Shows. For Young Koi Shows, I believe option 2 is real important. Anyway these are my views, would like to hear yours.........

    So how about you guys?.........Which one do you prefer? Lets have a good discussion here.....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-11-11 08:58:06 am
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Option 4.
    Good body, superb skin quality and pattern to die for at acceptable price.
    I am for option 4 everyday and any where :-))
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    <blockquote rel="ikankoikau">Option 4.
    Good body, superb skin quality and pattern to die for at acceptable price.
    I am for option 4 everyday and any where :-))</blockquote>

    You are quite right Bro...........these days, there is no choice but option 4 for me... :-D
    Else, cannot win in shows....... :-D and these are not cheap.... :-(
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    wow thanks for all the sharing every bro over her =)
    there really alot to be learn for me in future ,
    too much to be absorbed =D will have to learn continuosly.
    honestly untill now i only pay more atention on the pattern tat attract me, seriously need to pay more attention in body comfirmation ad..
    erm every experienced bro over here , would u all mind to share what is a basic good body characteristic tat we shud look at ?
  • TimyTimy November 2012
    Posts: 77
    Only good body shape and superb skin quality will cost you a lot don't mention plus a pattern to die for.If a fish with these three things it is a top class fish for All Japan Show.Learning to look for a body shape is not by teaching in words .This by looking more on top class fish talk with experiance people's and the rest is self learning.This is what i think only i might be wrong.Look for fish with good body shape and skin quality. This thing must come together .Good body shape ,bad skin quality=NO.Forget about pattern if it not too plain.Look at 2006 GC YAMATO. His pattern is not a good as the standard stated but as it grow the body shape and the skin quality will make the fish look excellent.This is just a newbie statement i said what i think but it might be wrong.
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Timy,
    Yamato and Alexandria are among my favorites......... (Y)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • TimyTimy November 2012
    Posts: 77
    Yes Bro Shukri ,Yamato is still my favorites koi until today. She look unattractive with her
    pattern during nisai stage.
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Timy,
    Bloodline play a huge role with regards to Body Conformation.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    I have my own newbie method of chosing my tosai:

    * Step 1: When I'm looking in a pond full of the type of koi I want, for my first round of selection I will try to select based on body conformation only. This is tough for a newbie like me as my instant reaction is always to go for pattern. Pattern is important to me (I'm a pattern man so what :-D ) but I have learnt over the years that for a true enjoyment of my koi, irrespective of whether I aim to enter them into koi show or not, overall quality will definitely enhance your enjoyment and body confirmation is definitely a major criteria. At this stage I hope to have around 5-8 pieces.

    * Step 2: From the selected lot, I now focus on skin quality only - the quality of shiroji, beni, or sumi, kiwa, sashi, shine, cleanliness of head etc. depending on the variety I was looking for. I will start tossing out those that do not possess overall good skin quality. I hope to have 3-5 pieces left at this stage.

    * Step 3: For the final round only I will start looking at pattern. Considering that the finalist have passed the body confirmation and skin quality test, all that matters now is their pattern. Pattern is subjective as repeatedly mentioned by bro Shukri. I chose pattern that's pleasing to my eye and also consider the eyes of others (especially my HM :-D ). Despite good body and good skin quality, I know I will still be annoyed for a long long time if the patent is not to my liking, and somehow the fish will end up in the culling list anyway. I will pick the final top 3 based on pattern and return the rest to the pond.

    * Step 4: The final step is; take some pictures or videos, then WhatsApp it to a sifu and get his opinion...! Or better still, just ask him to choose for you! ;-) Always works...!

    Would love to hear method of others...
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
    Post edited by pandai at 2012-11-11 10:10:42 pm
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai,
    Indeed you are a fast learner, and I am sure beyond doubts that you have gone up to a higher level now........ (Y) Keep up the good work. I am sure you will be in this hobby for a real long while.......just like me! :-)) :-D

    Don't be shy to ask questions........challenge the old ways. Read a lot, search the Internet and bump ideas with the Koi Community. In no time, you will be there..........

    Another pattern guy here........ :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Pandai,
    Can't stop laughing on your Step 4. 1st time I heard such a step put in writing :-))
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    <blockquote rel="ikankoikau">Bro Pandai,
    Can't stop laughing on your Step 4. 1st time I heard such a step put in writing :-)) </blockquote>

    Bro Captain,
    This is surely a new found step by Bro pandai....... :-D Very ingenious la.......
    I think I will adopt this strategy too....... :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Maybe one day, having WhatsApp will be a requirement in Koi Keeping or when purchasing a koi. Good tot bro Pandai. I will also do the same la;-))
  • TimyTimy November 2012
    Posts: 77
    Agreed with you bro Shukri, Bloodline play a major part
  • JamesJames November 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bros, pls pass me the whatsapp no too.... :-)) :-))
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Step 4 is most effective method. I had success few times :-D

    Sifu Shukri, you Whatsapp for others opinion??? Must be a real Sifu Sifu level
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    thanks for all the teaching =D i will start learning to choose koi with the body shape and skin aspect and get rid of the bad habit that only look on the pattern =) will try to adapt the few steps lol =D
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    here are some other kois tat i currently have =)
    definitely fail in the body shape wit my previous poor selecting skill lol
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10549/1.jpg
    fat aka bekko( right ?) with fat tail lol
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10550/2.jpg
    skinny fish ... izit a orenji ogon ?
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10551/3.jpg
    ginrin kohaku ~
    Post edited by k0kwa1 at 2012-11-12 12:27:06 am
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10552/4.jpg
    dunno what is tis ~ is not tancho rite ...
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10553/5.jpg
    tis is the fish tat i posted earlier in tis dicussion, name godan kohaku right ?
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10554/6.jpg
    dunno what is her name ..~.~
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10555/7.jpg
    tis is shiro bekko =)
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  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    Among all,ginrin kohaku looks quite ok..but local kois always end up with stunted body and bloated belly..
  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/10556/8.jpg
    yamabuki hariwake i guess 0.o
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  • k0kwa1k0kwa1 November 2012
    Posts: 146
    bro Izrul , how is the bloated belly look lik ? very ugly ?
    izit due to eat too much or other factors ?
  • grinkz01grinkz01 November 2012
    Posts: 530
    shiro bekko looks like have tendency to get belly?
    Post edited by grinkz01 at 2012-11-12 01:13:03 am
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro @James and others,

    Actually I've asked and the sifus wouldn't mind to keep the hotline open to all. After all, it's their sharing and caring nature that have brought them up to their sifu status in the first place... ^:)^ I will make the WhatsApp "Koi Hotline" open to all. All you need to join is WhatsApp app on your smartphone and then PM me your mobile number. I will add you to the group. Please bear in mind that this Hotline only to be used for sending pics or videos for the attention of the sifus for their quick help and feedback. The rest of the stuffs like sick kois or selling kois to be discussed shall be kept in this forum - otherwise sifus will never get to sleep or rest... :-))

    And by the way bro @James, your joining status would be under status of sifu lah obviously... :-D
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • JamesJames November 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Pandai, my name is James, your name Pandai, u la sifu.... :-))

    P/s What is your number to join this kehpohci whatsapp.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro James, do you know that in Malay history, "Pandai" is actually part of the title given to expert in something e.g. for someone good as a blacksmith is called "Pandai Besi", a dagger expert is called "Pandai Keris" and so on. I'm yet to be called "Pandai Koi" lah bro... :-))
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    :-)) :-)) :-))
  • JamesJames November 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    At least the pandai is there already, just awaiting coronation ma... :-D
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    Yes..agreed on a whatsapp group.can help real fast when need to choose koi at dealer

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