Water top-up
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    I searched old discussion threads but could not find one about this so apologies if this has been asked and discussed before.

    Where is the best place to put the inlet for the trickle/continuous top up? The main pond or the filter chambers? If filter chamber, which chamber is best, first or last? If main pond, which side of main pond - obviously furthest away from over flow outlet but any particular spot?

    Please help. Thanks.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Last filter chamber.
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bros,
    My current system the water overflow is located in last filter chamber which also has overflow which is no good as only 50% goes back to main pond, where else the balance is to the drain. So now I top up at the main pond furthest away from SS.

    I believe got two best option:
    1) Filter chamber: last chamber but make sure don't have overflow pipe
    2) main pond: furthest away from SS

    The rational is when top up, let the new water goes into main pond and the old water goes out through overflow. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    I currently have an overflow in the main pond and unfortunately not very far from my inlet but at least downstream of the circular flow, so in theory not all the new water goes out the overflow. I normally do trickle top up by using a garden hose direct into main pond but after a while HM complained of the unsightly view.

    I now plan to install a permanent line. There is limited space in my chambers and also not easy for access to the trickle tap as I like to turn them on only at night so that's why I thought of installing the trickle top up in the main pond instead. I also plan to put an inline charcoal filter to remove chlorine.

    I just need to understand of the reasoning of putting the water in the chamber in the first place and what are the disadvantages if put into the main pond. And if not on last chamber, would it be just as effective in say, first chamber? Again, more due to configuration and access.

    Thanks.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Brudders,

    Just mho. If you top up water for making partial water change and adding anti chlorine, it will be much better to top up before denitration stage because adding anti chlorine will produce Ammonia. I top up water at my second chamber(before Jmat) which still can be considered as settlement chamber. So the bacteria will convert the Ammonia safely before the new water entering the pond.

    But for trickle water flow, it may not make much different as the water added continuously is in small amount. I know some hobbyist top up directly into the pond and nothing happened. But you can try and see the different. I noticed my kois are more comfortable if I top up prior to bacteria stage in the filter chamber especially when it involved higher percentage of water change.

    Adding directly into the pond can have effect on uneven chlorine level especially if the pond water flow is not consistent or dead spot exist. Or with the anti chlorine reaction, Ammonia will be unintentionally introduced into the pond. Just my 2 cent.
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    I face one dilemma..right now when i do water changing,i just put tap water hose into the FGT,( with fish in it)then only i add anti chlorine...if no chlorine found via chlorine testing,i just dont add any anti chlorine...
    I come to think of adding pail by pail...(after treating chlorine) but thats too exhausting.... :-S
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Pandai ,

    Possible to cover the overflow during top up so new water not wasted?

    Bros,
    i use a drip to add in antichlorine for better mixing with chlorinated tap water. Note the uneven chlorine level mentioned by Capt. Most just measure and pour in total to chamber or pond at beginning of change while the top up takes few hours. Not good esp if like me change up to 20% at times. I add top up to last pump chamber.

    ts
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    I did the same thing bro Lau. I will normally add the anti chlorine needed in 1.25ml bottle(with a few small holes poked thru the bottle cap)and add water to it. Shake it a while and drip it slowly near the water hose. I believe this will help spreading the anti chlorine(solution) evenly better.

    Bro Izrul,
    Chlorine gets diluted in your FGT. But the water spot you have picked up to test the chlorine level could be chlorine free or undetected. But chlorine might be present in other spot of the FGT. Or low level chlorine will be present until it get degassed after many hours.

    But what I have said about ammonia persent when anti chlorine added is true. You can test it. Mix anti chlorine into tap water in a container. After mixing it with anti chlorine, just carry out ammonia test.
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2012-11-05 11:44:53 am
  • IzrulIzrul November 2012
    Posts: 715
    sometimes when i do partial water change,kois does flashed for a moment until the anti chlorine is spread evenly ( my guess)
    Post edited by Izrul at 2012-11-05 02:51:23 pm
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Capt,

    Your dripping method follow my idea ka , :-)) i use baby bottles. Koi kichi minds think alike bro >:D<

    Based on your test , looks like Syabas is adding chloramine to your tap water :-( . Not good , you will need almost 4 times as many dichlorinator to neutralise the chlorine and end up with ammonia released. I will test mine too , i hope my area don't have, this may explain why my source water now at pH 9, used to be at 7.5 :-(

    Bros , reading this suggest test your water as suggested. Read up on chloramine and it could explain some issues you have with your kois.

    thanks for head up Capt (Y)

    ts

  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    " ... looks like Syabas is adding chloramine to your tap water. "
    In the Kuala Lumpur area where there were water supply disruptions a few months ago - I also strongly suspect that they fiddled with the levels of chlorine. Flushing the empty pipes, etc.

    I have no evidence of the above, but I now use a F/G tank to dechlorinate the water before I pump it into my small 1500 gallon pond. Yes, a lot more work - but at least I know what is going into the pond. Safer is better ?
    Mike Lee
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    My house has two filteration system for all incoming water.

    1st: Membran filter: More like mechanical filter.
    2nd: Carbon filter: 4.5 feet height with poly glass body (something like sand filter but the sand changed to carbon)

    I had a bad experience whereby 3 of my fav koi FB2J after my maid mistakenly open the water valve and did not close it. chlorinated water enter my pond at very high rate.

    So, I take a safety measure by installing the bigger carbon filter. All the trickle water is safe from chlorine and during major water change, I still add anti-chlorine. :-D
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Mike Lee (Y) your option of adding water is best , but lots of work esp for bigger pond.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Lau,
    Baby bottle is a good idea (Y) But what is the biggest baby bottle we can find in the market? This is bad la bro, now this hobby has intervened into baby stuff :-))
    You are right. When they added Chloromine, there will be evidence of Ammonia present. I normally doubled the anti chlorine dosage. But last year I bought over bro Denning's FGT which can hold around 5 ton. I normally will use this tank as QT but when there is no koi to quarantine, I will fill this tank up and add anti chlorine. When needed, I just pump this water directly into my 1st or 2nd chamber. Very helpful esp when I clean any two of the filter chambers at a go.

    Recently, I have installed carbon filter for my big pond. The trickle water(chlorine free) will come from this carbon filter. But occasionally I got to test for chlorine as the chlorine present will indicate the needs to backwash this filter.

    This topic may sound patty, but if you noticed your kois start flshing every time you carry out partial water change, it is something that you got to look into.
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2012-11-05 04:17:03 pm
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Being the lazy kind, I just dump the needed anti chlorine and then add water directly from the tap.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Capt,

    Bottles ( old recycled one from my kids) abt 280ml i think. I change abt 10-15T depended upon TDS level. Used to fill up the sump chamber 5T , dechlor and pump to pond. Too lazy nowadays, just direct to pump chamber pond and drip dechlor from there, i did notice some stress , maybe due to chloramine , pH .

    ts
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    " ... I just dump the needed anti chlorine and then add water directly from the tap.. "

    This is what I was doing for more than 5 years - no problems because my pond is small - but a wipe out a few months ago gave me a hard kick in the you know where.
    Yes, a small pond is much easier to manage - but is not a place where we can get over confident. Even a small amount of contamination can bring untold misery. (sweat) (sweat) (sweat)
    Mike Lee
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Is it a wipeout due to chlorine poisoning! For bigger ponds, it is not so over exposed.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Capt.,

    Thanks for the advice. I think your 2 cent is actually worth RM2.50 at least! \:D/

    Anyway, for my large volume top up after water change; I just put anti-chlorine granules into the main pond and then add water straight into the main pond either from my inlet or using garden hose. I also add a bit of anti chlorine in the 1st filer chamber in case chlorine gets through due to uneven mix in the main pond. But now, it seems like your method is better. Nonetheless, my pond is small so mixing is probably easier to achieve. Anyway, I remember reading in one of the postings here that the ammonia produced by the anti-chlorine is actually very small and insignificant but it's there still.

    For the trickle top-up; I plan to add an inline carbon filter so hopefully no issue with chlorine. The decision to put it into the main pond is more due to piping configuration and available space in the filter chambers plus access to turn tap on and off whenever required. But now that I learnt more maybe I will try to find how I can squeeze some space in the filter chambers.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Pandai,
    Anti-chlorine granules is fatal to Koi's. Please dilute in water first before pour in. I had read somewhere before but can't really recall.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Lau, that is why now I top-up using garden hose from the other end of the pond rather than using my inlet that was close to the overflow outlet. This I don't mind as only have to do it once a week.

    I had not detected high chlorine in my tap water (when I used to check - nowadays not so rajin...) so had not been so disciplined in ensuring proper mix of anti-chlorine. But since my weekly water change is sometimes more than 25%, I should have been more careful in future, especially after learning of bro Mfwlee's experience.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    Shukri - I noticed that the water clouded over very quickly - a sure sign of my filter dying - did 35% water change at about 9 pm ( no more pH test liquid available in my house ), and then another 35% change at 5 am - then I WENT FISHING !!! Complete over confidence, and deserving to be shot.
    Yes, I did use anti chlorine but dripped it straight into the pond rather than through a header tank.
    The complication for my " pond crash investigation " is that I also asked my maid to shoot in more tap water when she called me to tell me that my fish were dying one by one. The sad sight only greeted me when I got back after about 2 hours.
    pH crash ? Chlorine poisoning ? - dunno, but there is only one fella to blame.
    Always - small pond, watch out - and don't take things for granted when it involves our pets.
    Mike Lee
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro TK,

    Is it??? :O Thankfully my kois are all afraid of them. They always group together in one corner of the pond during water fill up and I would then throw the anti-chlorine granules on the opposite side. But I should be more careful now and dilute them first.

    Hear that bro @shukri??? Don't be lazy laaa... your pond already maintenance-free, still want to make it even easier ka...? [-(
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Water changes in smaller ponds need to be extra careful with. For bigger ponds, it is not that huge of an issue with regards to changing 10 to 25% water. I use a Waterco filter for my water inlet, this alone has some what reduce the Chlorine content. I normally put in the right dosage of the anti Chlorine prior to adding the new water. For all these years, it works for me. I used to use the anti chlorine crystals, also worked fine for me.....

    Since it has worked for me all these years, I become lazy la....... Even if I forgot to turn off the tap, and the water flows until the next day, the situation is still OK for my pond........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-11-05 05:58:25 pm
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Forgetting to turn off the tap is a different kind of problem already bro Shukri... :-))
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Whatever you guys do, don't depend on these canisters to filter out chlorine :

    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/2024/show-me-your-filter-chamber-media-setup/p3

    I've just tested the output and there's chlorine even at trickle amount. banghead
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    Hokay - looks like somebody who supplies water filters with activated charcoal is going to get some small business this weekend.
    Thanks for the advice - and I will remember to turn off the tap. :)
    Mike Lee
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro nivek,

    I think you can use the same casing but can buy a better quality filter internal. They are of varying quality and hence price.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Ya bro pandai will go hunting this weekend :)
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    KW Aquatic :-D
    Buy the Activate carbon granules.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    So bros, back to earlier question; do we all agree that it doesn't really matter where we top-up from, either main pond or filter chambers as long as the water is dechlorinated properly?
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro pandai, can't top up at the bio filter chamber as the chlorine will kill the good bacteria.
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro nivek, I plan to install an inline activated carbon filter to remove the chlorine.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Haha then mana pun boleh lol
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Oh, now I remember - the original question was not only about chlorine. Now that we have established that if chlorine is being remove properly, it doesn't matter we we add the fresh water to. But what I was wondering was where is THE BEST place to put it. Is there any advantage to have the new fresh water added to the main pond directly? Or does it have more advantage being added into the filter chamber? Or it doesn't matter which ever way.

    By the way, I noticed my fishes like to sometimes surface up where I trickled the water into main pond and gulp the water trickling down. Maybe they like the fresh water. That's what driven me to trickle into main pond actually.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri November 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    I know the discussion is all and good. I believe we should not be too overly critical about the whole thing. FYI, I used to clean my brushes, the Japanese mats and the Bio crystal with the Water Jet (i.e. tap water thus chlorinated water). End result, some of the good bacteria died but didn't destroy the colonies in the filter chambers.......... In 24 to 48 hours, the bacteria count are back to normal...........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • MfwleeMfwlee November 2012
    Posts: 355
    Just my humble personal preference, when introducing new water, always safer to put it into a larger body of water. This means that I would put it into the main pond, and not directly into the much smaller filters.
    Water jet cleaning ? - Yep, did that too until the stupid thing expired - now rely on the trusty hose as the water pressure in my house is fortunately quite good.
    Mike Lee
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bros,
    The theory or info is available. It is up to you to choose whichever suit you best. Try for yourself and things that work for your pond may not work for others.

    If you trickle tap water, in the filter or pond is very safe. It will get dilute very fast. Don't worry too much adding water(with anti chlorine added) in the filter chamber as nitrification don't just die off just by topping up tap water in the filter chambers. You can even wash the media with tap water and the nitrification bacteria will bounce back very fast. Faster than you expected. Within a day or two, you will get back the whole colony. The good part, you will also kill the bad bacteria. In aerobic condition(good DO), good bacteria will multiple very2 fast and bad bacteria will take longer time to multiply subject to the whole water condition in the pond. But don't clean all the media in all the chambers at once.

    Remember, protect your koi from the chlorine and ammonia effect first. Bacteria is secondary. We treat our pond with medication every now and then. Have you noticed the severity of the reduction in bacteria colony? I don't think so. It's quite common for the colony to reduce and grow. More important, protect your kois and provide good water for your kois. The good water will allow the good bacteria to kick in easily.
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2012-11-05 07:44:10 pm
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Good post Capt. Agree with bro Shukri and Capt, the bacts will bounce back very fast if this happens not too frequent.

    Bro pandai,

    To answer your question, i would add/trickle fresh water into the pump chamber/ last chamber . Rationale:

    a) If water added has chlorine, it will react with ammonia in pond to form chloramine, not good. Last chamber after bio filter will not have/minimal ammonia.
    b) Pump chamber will better distribute/ mix new/old water / anti chlorine.

    Bro pandai , you truly koi kichi la , most will not consider this , unless kichi la. (Y)
    ts
  • wyinwyin November 2012
    Posts: 78
    I am doing 24 hours trickle and overflow for my daily water change. Using DIY activated carbon filter to remover the chlorine from the source water. I have another source of incoming water for my pond which is via mist nozzles. The low pressure mist nozzles could dissipate the chlorine well and at the same time, oxygenate and cool the source water before adding to the pond. But the mist nozzles alone could not get the volume I need for daily water change. I choose not to use ST or any other water conditional to prevent adding to the pond TDS.
    To avoid drastic change in water parameter. I am following the practice of large volume discharge and small volume top up for my weekly maintenance. Even if I were to drain large % of water from my pond, I will use the same trickle and mist for refill, sometimes up to 30 hours or more. Trickle into bakki collection chamber and mist directly into pond.

    Regards,
    Wei Yin
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Wei Yin,

    How do you use your TDS understanding for water maintenance ? On this misting refill , have you tested for chlorine ? Wow 30hrs to refill , water level still can support use of skimmer ?

    ts
  • wyinwyin November 2012
    Posts: 78
    Hi Lau,

    My maintenance is fixed regardless of the TDS readings. As learning process, I just use TDS to understand the relation of my feed vs water change. I use the nett TDS value as an indication of amount of pollutant in the pond. Nett TDS being Measured TDS - Source TDS - Known Additives (salt, clay, medication, ST etc). Since I have not been adding anything into the pond for the last 30 days, my nett TDS value is easy to calculate. With 13-15% daily water change and my TDS is dropping from 330ppm 40+ days ago to current 57ppm and it continues to lower, I know I have changed more than enough water for my current feed rate.

    Back to the water top up. If I collect water sample 30cm from the mist nozzle, chlorine is not detectable using the color tester. It may not be 100% cleared but I guess it is good enough. The mist nozzles are just another small experiment I am conducting. :)
    I am using a swimming pool type of surface skimmer which works in 150cm variation level of water. No problem for the water level to stay low for extended period of time.

    Regards,
    Wei Yin
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Wei Yin,

    Not many takes TDS reading and uses it as water management tool, I am one of those so is YYSim i recall. I use as rough guide as my using clay again now , TDS will increase slightly, not to the rain now. You forgot the rain in the equation :-D , this will lower TDS by a lot. Don't use ST , use the std dechlor where dosage is more precise. You will find very little impact on pond TDS.

    My source water TDS abt 38-42 , my pond TDS now is 72 after clay and lots of rain. My water change will come when TDS goes up by max 10- 15 , normally a week. I would like to lower the pond TDS to abt 50-60 but it would mean a lot of water change :O

    ts
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Lau, no lah... I'm just an engineer by profession so can't help but to be obsessed with the technical aspects of the pond. I was once asked, why am I so into koi keeping as a hobby? My answer was; this is one hobby where it is as much as technical as it is an art - the design and upkeep of a pond is very highly technical and on the other extreme, the appreciation of kois is a true art. And that's what makes me crazy about it... :-D

    In the mean time, while I was trying to decide where to locate the top-up line; my DIY tool-box, PVC pipes, fittings and all sorts of other stuffs are strewn all around the porch - much to HM's dismay... %-( :-@
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Hahahaha.... My porch has the common mess too bro Pandai. The kichis will never be satisfied with their pond. They are not only get ichy when viewing kois, they got ichy too everytime they have spare time. I bet you the kois will always ask among themselves, "what the hack is he doing to us now? :-))
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2012-11-06 08:14:26 pm
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    .
    Post edited by ikankoikau at 2012-11-06 04:59:35 pm
  • wyinwyin November 2012
    Posts: 78
    Hi Bro Lau,

    My pond is covered, so I don't get much rain water apart from the splashes. I am still struggling to learn the science and art of water management. What I am try to do here is to establish a baseline readings of all parameter of my pond to serve as future reference should anything goes wrong. If TDS is the total free ion in the water, pond with pH above 7 will register a slightly higher TDS because of OH- ion? Do you know anyway that we could measure DOC? Is DOC part of TDS?

    Regards,
    Wei Yin
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar November 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Pandai,

    I think we are in the same boat. I have all the pond stuffs all around the house. At my garden, 2 store room, back yard, my room...... And everytime I'm back from koi farm, HM would see what new stuff I buy and then :-@

    Capt,
    As you said, whenever I have free time, i would be looking at the ponds and Kois and the Kois would be looking at me and ask "so, what now???" :-)) :-))
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro @wyin,

    Something I found on a quick Internet search. Hope this helps:

    ** What is a dissolved organic compound?

    An organic compound is any compound that contains one or more atoms of carbon. Natural waters, freshwater aquariums and saltwater aquariums contain a great variety of soluble organic compounds. These include such compounds as sugars, fatty acids, humic acids, tannins, vitamins, amino acids, proteins and urea. Suspended organic matter in water includes remains of organisms in various stages of decay and living phytoplankton, zooplankton, fungi and bacteria. Sometimes each of the concentrations of individual organic compounds is not measured. Instead it is more common to measure total particulate organic matter, biochemical oxygen demand, or chemical oxygen demand. These variables are indicative of the total quantity of organic matter in water.

    ** So what exactly is TDS and why is it important?

    Here is a definition of TDS as I see it : it basically refers to all the inorganic dissolved solids in water. It does not necessarily provide foolproof information on hardness measurements (though it does include things like calcium and magnesium) but gives a better over-view of the total mineral content of water. So it is not correct to simply regard TDS as an indicator of hardness, i.e. how much calcium carbonate is dissolved in the water. One can say that there is no accurate relationship between hardness and TDS. GH is basically a measurement of divalent cations, namely MG++ (magnesium) and CA++ (calcium) where as KH is a measurement of carbonate concentration.* Both GH and KH can affect hardness and TDS levels, however, the reverse is not necessarily true. Aquarium water can have a high TDS level but a low GH and KH.
    TDS thus incorporates dissolved ionic minerals, both cations and anions, Cations are elements from the left side of the periodic table (metals) and when they react they usually become positive ions. Cations include ions such as sodium, pottasium, magnesium, calcium, barium, zinc, iron and copper. Elemetns from the right side of the periodic table that react with metals take electrons to form negative ions called anions. Anions include ions such as fluoride, chloride, bromide, iodine, sulfide, chlorate, nitrate, premanganate,, sulfate, and phosphate (Source : Chemistry department, University of Florida). All these ions an other inorganic ions are included in TDS. It does not include things like H2O, or suspended particles such as wood pulp though Lenntech states that it does.
    This is where things get interesting in my opinion.
    In addition to above, AquaChek states the following : "In general, the total dissolved solids concentration is the sum of the cations (positively charged) and anions (negatively charged) ions in the water. Parts per Million (ppm) is the weight-to-weight ratio of any ion to water. Conductivity is usually about 100 times the total cations or anions expressed as equivalents. Total dissolved solids (TDS) in ppm usually ranges from 0.5 to 1.0 times the electrical conductivity."
    As I stated earlier, TDS values are important for breeding many soft water dwarf cichlids (and many other fish species) but I will provide my own experiences in the segment further down the page.

    "Similar to TSS (Total Suspended Solids), high concentrations of TDS may also reduce water clarity, contribute to a decrease in photosynthesis, combined with toxic compounds and heavy metals, and lead to an increase in water temperature" ( source : KanCRN website).
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • wyinwyin November 2012
    Posts: 78
    Hi Pandai,

    Thanks for the informative article. So it says "Here is a definition of TDS as I see it : it basically refers to all the INORGANIC dissolved solids in water"

    But when I wiki on TDS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_dissolved_solids

    Wiki says "Total Dissolved Solids (often abbreviated TDS) is a measure of the combined content of all INORGANIC AND ORGANIC substances contained in a liquid in: molecular, ionized or micro-granular (colloidal sol) suspended form. "

    Is DOC part of TDS? I am confused @-)
  • pandaipandai November 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro wyin,

    My simple take is that; TDS is all, organic and inorganic (hence TOTAL) whilst DOC is organic, as it says.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    Suggest a new thread on TDS and DOC. My understanding on TDS is whatever dissolved in water , organic or inorganic. What constitute TDS reading is more important than just low or high TDS reading. Just like drinking mineral water is better than drinking distilled water. You don't want to keep kois in distilled water @-), but not all mineral water is suitable , must be correct type of minerals.

    ts
  • niveknivek November 2012
    Posts: 1,251
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Kevin,

    Thanks ! Many was crazy measuring TDS back then. Not sure how many still maintaining it. Bro Alan (YYSim) was one of the local pioneer using TDS meters. My last challenge to him was to grow to 85cm , he achieved that some time back.

    Bro Alan , time to update your kois again :-D :-D

    ts
  • lautslauts November 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    Measured by source water and after dechlor, no ammonia detected , very happy :) :) . Will test again tomorrow and few more times to make sure.

    ts

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