My Momotaro Tosai
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Another 2 tosai i can't load,file too big it seems on Imageshack.
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Alf,

    Nice kohaks especially no5 and 7. Whats the price paid for them ? Confirm female ?

    rgd
    ts
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    3k n guarantee female. Not female refund another one for female.
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    What was the size at purchase and how many confirm female now? parent koi identified in cert?
    Thank you , for info.

    ts
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    i didnt do a measurement, all are around 10-15cm.Sex now are unknown.Cert they havent get it done yet from momotaro. Think by dec will have it.
  • JamesJames November 2010
    Posts: 1,964
    Alf, cert not ready? I've never heard of such scenario! Or maybe because I don't have that many cert kois... but bros from this forum shd be able to comment.
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Been told the farm been busy of harvesting, but was assured by Vincent.Momotaro will issue the cert. But this 3k kois no parent bloodline mentioned on it.
  • masonmason November 2010
    Posts: 68
    new style ....
  • KaajKaaj November 2010
    Posts: 376
    Hi Alf. Would just like to clarify.
    Momotaro tossai - 15cm, gender not confirmed, but if not female, refund another female (what size, 10-15cm also?), no cert right now, and parent koi unknown. Cost RM3k. Is this about right?

    It sounds very different to the normal scenario.
    1. Eg. Dainichi 15-20cm, comes with cert, gender not confirmed, parent koi always known.
    2. Eg. Sakai 30-40cm, comes with cert, gender not confirmed, parent koi always known.
    3. Eg. Isa 40-50cm, comes with cert, gender confirmed, parent koi always known.

    WIth 1 & 2, the risk is on you, but you know the pedigree based on the parent.
    With no 3, if it is female, you also know the pedigree and potential - so you pay more. Also, the breeder/local dealer will exchange if not female.

    I believe the reason for a cert is to show the buyer the potential of the koi based on the parent/bloodline.


    Post edited by Kaaj at 2010-11-18 02:04:49 pm
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    TS,
    10 to 15cm guarantee female........man! very daring indeed by the dealer. What it is meant here is that what they are guaranteeing is that if the fish turned out to be male, then they will replace the fish.........not that they guarantee that particularly fish is a female guaranteed. I believe they have to correct the 'Guaranteed' part..........quite misleading to me!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Hi Kaaj, I was told the bloodline was Bentley. The last sanke i bot the bloodline wasnt on the cert.This time wasnt sure the parent picture is there or not.The other more expensive koi i bot had a parent koi picture on it.The replacement is base on your value which you paid earlier.If there is a 3k karashi measured 40bu it can be exchange.Its up to your negotiation with Vincent.I assume the refund or exchange part is value for value.
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Bro Shukri,

    Kepong koi's momotaro tosai all are handpick by Vincent himself.So he assume all he pick are female but he cud be wrong.So with his sex judgement skill he dare to guarantee in a such way. Some koi are guranteed female cud turn out to be a male, so i find his 'guarantee' female terms is different from others.
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Alf,

    Most important is you are happy with your purchases , your money really. But this being a forum by hobbyist and for hobbyist, so we tend to share what is commonly acceptable practise.
    For the value you are paying for you should know the female parent. Don't buy the offspring when you don't like the mother. For the value too, it should have a original cert by Momotaro, most times you will see the cert before the kois , for the best ones.
    For value too take the example of the Asia 2nd GO , Dainichi and Sakai kois, no less. Priced at RM3500 , the kois will be more than 50 (maybe 60cm) when the hobbyist gets it. All comes with certs, guarantee female and famous parentage.

    Maybe others more experienced in buying kois should provide a listing of expectation to help guide newbies? Bros pls : (Andy, Alan can start this rolling :-)
    a) Female parent known maybe male parent too.
    b) Certs by the farm not local print.
    c)
    d)

    Not to criticise anyone/dealer but to educate and inform of our expectations.

    thanks

    :-) :-)
    rgd
    ts
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Dear TS,

    Thanks for your advice, would heed it and learn more from you.Hopefully one day we can meet up to share more of you guys experience and knowledge.Happy or not with my purchase i still yet to know, it will only tell when it grow.I am still learning.

    Appreciate all of your comments here.Keep posting.
    Post edited by alf at 2010-11-19 03:34:18 am
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi there Alfred,
    We would appreciate it if you could post the development of these kois after 6 months or so. I see that koi no. 1, 4 and 6 have small open white spots within the Beni, hopefully these will be covered with the Beni as it grows, else it will develop into 'Madoaki.' For Koi no. 8, it is interesting to see how the Sumi will develop. Thick and lacquer like Sumi will definitely enhance this koi.
    The development of these 8 kois into superb Nisais will undoubtly change my perception towards Momotaro kois.

    Happy koi keeping. :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • KaajKaaj November 2010
    Posts: 376
    Bro Lau,
    From what little i know - most farms dont include the male parent, because they themselves are unsure ;) They put 1 female + 2 or 3 male in at the same time....so cant be sure.

    But looking at marudo's cert, they also state the name of male parent. Maybe they are confident after seing the result of the ensuing spawn to determine which male characteristics were adopted by the tossai.
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Hello bang Shukri,

    Sure will update you every 6 months for the development,by the way what is Madoaki?
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    It is a window opening in the Beni which is a demerit for a Kohaku..........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Bang Shukri, thanks for teaching n highlighting it to me.Appreciate it.
  • AndySittAndySitt November 2010
    Posts: 560
    Bro Alf, got guarantee no window ah? Fish too small to tell!!
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    You are welcome bro.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • alfalf November 2010
    Posts: 50
    Bro Andy, that one ar u hv to nego with Vincent la.
  • KepongKoiKepongKoi December 2010
    Posts: 10
    Thank you very much for everyone's concern on KepongKoi's kois. Actually my dad auctioned these kois when they are only about 10cm. There are over 2000 pieces of kois that are auctioned during Momotaro's auction so it is impossible for them to prepare certificates for all the kois. When we are confirm of the kois' quality, standard and potential in the future, we will take photos of the kois and send them to Momotaro Koi Farm. They will then make birth certificates for the kois if they too confirm of the kois' potential and standard. A lot of our previous tosais from Momotaro's Auction have very good results. Most of them have already grew till 80cm++ and still not finished.
    We will update more on these tosais growth. =)
  • KoibitoJapanKoibitoJapan January 2011
    Posts: 0
    Kaaj,

    Not all the koi farms you mentioned supply certificates for their koi...including Momotaro. This does NOT mean you are being ripped off with fake koi. It just means that the koi were maybe bought in a large group, for example 2,000 pcs. I this situation you cannot expect koi farms to make certificates for such a large group of koi. Do you know how long it would physically take to photograph and print certificates for 2,000 koi. Probably the dealer will send the photo of your koi to Momotaro and ask them to make a certificate for a particular koi.

    Just to make the photos for a nisai auction from Momotaro Koi Farm, for example, for around 100 koi takes the farm 1 whole day, with all the staff helping...

    I know, I live in Okayama about 20 mins from the farm, and have seen their preparation many times before.

    Alf...don't worry...I know Vincent, he is a very honest guy, and if he says he will give you certificates, then you must believe him...he is a Momotaro Koi Farm specialist, and a trusted friend of Momotaro Koi Farm.

    Regards,


    Paul Ashton
    Koibito Japan

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