Koi Appreciation in the eyes of Koi Competition Judge and Hobbyist
  • ykyapykyap October 2012
    Posts: 22
    koianswers.com/discussion/download/9956/Shusui-3.JPG
    In the recent concluded 2012 Wakagoi, there were 5 shusui entered for this 38bu category. Few hobbyists were asked and were shown to this batch of 5 shusuis and none of the hobbyists predicted that this koi will win any placing.

    However, when the final results were announced, this shusui won 2nd placing. I am now puzzled and confused as why there is a distinct appreciation standard in the eyes of the judges and hobbyist.

    My questions is:
    1) What do judges look for in this shusui?
    2) What are the demerit of this shusui that it only qualified for 2nd placing.

    I hope seasoned koi competition participant or koi sifus can enlighten and educate me on koi appreciation or whether there is a separate standard in koi appreciation in competition. I am a new koi hobbyist and hope to tap koi sifus knowledge and experience and to apply it when buying new koi.

    Thanks
    YKYap
    Attachments
    Shusui-3.JPG 157K
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    I think for the better understanding and fair comment of others, all the five shusui pictures and their respective sizes be posted for evaluation and comparison.
  • JamesJames October 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    A koi can lose to another because there is better or there are qualities that the judges do not appreciate or flaws that are more severe to one judge from another. To beat this shusui, the other should have moto aka, less messy stray zip and whiter head. Probably some beni in the eye, dorsal and tail too.
  • megatronmegatron October 2012
    Posts: 832
    Perhaps, Let's view at the first prize winning Shusui for opinion.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/9960/38Bu 1st Prize Shusui.jpg
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Dear ykyap,
    If you put the two kois side by side, and ask the opinion of 10 people which of the two is a better koi, I believe you will get a unanymous answer........... The more imposing looking koi, is the one that won the 1st placing.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • niveknivek October 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Agree with bro Shukri. Deserving winner..my newbie point of view - body shape, cleaner head, cleaner and more even pattern (especially the steps and tail tube section), shiroji is whiter.
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Kevin,
    The way you have described the attributes, you are longer a newbie! ............ Real fast learner! (Y)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-10-10 02:19:21 pm
  • KahhoeKahhoe October 2012
    Posts: 219
    :-D :-D :-D
    Rearing Nishikigoi are very interesting ... Just observe their development ... Everybody loves them =)
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Shukri,

    I think Bro ykyap is asking why the first picture shusuieven placed second when no one even predicted it will win or it will win over three of the others shusui that didnt placed.
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    After reading the post again, bro ykyap questioned number 2 is like saying why his koi didn't win no. 1 spot..........
    Can someone load the pictures of the other three Shusuis and we can access the situation. Only from there that we can make a fair accessment........

    The question by Bro ykyap is a good one........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-10-10 02:27:34 pm
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Shukri,

    Hehe. Bro ykyap did mention that nobody predicted that the above shusui would get any placing but he was surprised that the judges even considered giving it a second place.

    Hope someone can load the other three pictures so we can see... Interesting topic.
  • ykyapykyap October 2012
    Posts: 22
    Bro HDCu,

    You are right on my question as initially after hearing predictions from fellow hobbyists that my shusui cannot get any of the top 3 placings, I thought my shusui was a gone case but surprizingly it got 2nd placing instead of none.

    Since getting 2nd placing my curiosity grew. Getting 2nd placing is not easy and now I would like to know what is this 2nd placing demerit against the 1st placing. From my eyes, I think is the zip. 1st placing got a cleaner zip. This what I can see.

    Appreciate all the replies and hope we can learn together.

    Thanks bro.
  • lautslauts October 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    I think bro ykyap need to clarify , i think he meant both
    " none of the hobbyists predicted that this koi will win any placing "
    " 2) What are the demerit of this shusui that it only qualified for 2nd placing" Contradiction ?

    i saw the picts of the 3rd placed one, i agree with the judges :) based on pict. Other criterias also important like condition of koi at time of judging. During benching early morning some kois was already stressed, maybe due to distance travelled, water was fouled and foaming , blood stained water etc. All this will effect how the koi will fare in competition.

    ts
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Most of the points have been said by Bro Nivek, and I would like to add a few other points:-

    1) The Beni of the other Shusui is much Redder and thicker
    2) The canvass is a lot cleaner
    3) The pectoral fin is a lot cleaner
    4) The Bone (the zip) is much crisper and nicer
    5) The Beni merely touching the Bone as compared to ykyap's Shusui that the Beni has already gone into the Bone.
    6) The 1st place Shusui has a more imposing look
    7) Though not a prority at this Tosai stage, the 1st winner has a nicer body
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ykyapykyap October 2012
    Posts: 22
    Bro HDCu and Bro Shukri

    Can only get the picture of the 1st to 3rd placing but not the other 2.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/9961/38 bu shusui.jpg
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro ykyap,
    Forgot to mention, your Shusui is not bad........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • HDCuHDCu October 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Shukri,

    Personally, I think the second placer if it is also a female will have better body conformation after two years as compared to the first.

    Bro ykyap,

    I think the second placer clearly beats the third placer in terms of balance of pattern and clean head.. First deserves the win because its pattern, color, zip and body is better.
  • SsmannSsmann October 2012
    Posts: 164
    Pardon my view...me newbie...but 1st plc clearly winner amongst the 3 photos...it just looks so much better then the rest, dont know how to explain it like Nivek....its like comparing Eva Mendes and Jennifer Lopez, u just know which want to pick when the opportunity arises....sorry for me view...but that's me 2 cents...

    But real good topic to learn from, tq
    Post edited by Ssmann at 2012-10-10 03:56:55 pm
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Winning a show is not always how good is your koi but how good is your competitors koi
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Ssmann always speaks my language :-))
  • SsmannSsmann October 2012
    Posts: 164
    Hahahahaha....bro TK.....we gotta always relate it back to the fairer sex for comprehension....well at least that's how i look at it...hahahahah
    Post edited by Ssmann at 2012-10-10 06:02:42 pm
  • smokersmoker October 2012
    Posts: 715
    Bro Ykyap,
    Comparing to the 3rd place, seeing from the pictures, your shusui deserves 2nd places. :)
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Ssmann,
    If Eva Mendes and Jennifer Lopez.......kind of hard to make the decision laaaaa! :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    And what Bro Harry said is very true.......in any Koi Show, who actually have the better kois.
    Even if one has an AJKS first in 63BU, but if another person's koi is a TAD better......he will surely win.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/9964/JLO.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/9965/eva mendes.jpg

    Sifu Shukri,
    I'll go for JLO :-D :-D
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    I think I have to make this site for over 18 yrs old now going forward....... :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • KahhoeKahhoe October 2012
    Posts: 219
    LOL !!!
    I am just over 18 for this ... Haha :-)) :-)) :-))
    Rearing Nishikigoi are very interesting ... Just observe their development ... Everybody loves them =)
  • megatronmegatron October 2012
    Posts: 832
    Look like you have to ban Ben here ......... :-))
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • JamesJames October 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Ben already kissing girls last year at Awana le....
  • SsmannSsmann October 2012
    Posts: 164
    Bro TK, u just made my nite!!!! Throwing back a few cold ones whilst ogling at these beauties.....off course I meant the kois ; )
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    :-)) :-)) :-)) :-D

    One thing for sure, this Forum does not lack HUMOR!!! :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur October 2012
    Posts: 808
    Without seeing the other 2 shusui, this is the right order.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • ykyapykyap October 2012
    Posts: 22
    Wow, this discussion has progressed into an "adult" discussion on "adult" specification. Hehehe.

    :-D :-D :-D
  • SengChoonSengChoon October 2012
    Posts: 443
    The J. Lo vs Eva Mendez comparison seems to draw a lot of attention to this thread.. :-D

    On the adult comparison, I am also perplexed @-) . Very hard to choose la...

    But as for the shusuis, based on the pictures provided I believe the order is fair and just. 8-)
  • SsmannSsmann October 2012
    Posts: 164
    Moral of the story "Hot kois are like hot women, don't choose, have them all"

    Ok now I revert back to U mode, untuk tontonan Umum O:)
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Ssmann,

    You have all, then your "pond" would be overcrowded. I mean the Koi
    :-)) :-))
  • JamesJames October 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Overstock is "common" in every pond.
  • SsmannSsmann October 2012
    Posts: 164
    Bro TK, supplementary moral of the story "Don't crowd all "Kois" into one pond, spread the love around many ponds in strategic places".

    Bro James, let me share an anecdote on "overstocking" and how to manage it, a dead friend shared with me. For the ladies out there, i think this works just as well if gender neutral. I am still struggling to convert this into Koi speak though.....

    1. It's important to have a woman who helps at home, cooks from time to time, cleans up, and has a job.
    2. It's important to have a woman who can make you laugh.
    3. It's important to have a woman who you can trust, and doesn't lie to you.
    4. It's important to have a woman who is good in bed, and likes to be with you.
    5. It's very, very important that these four women do not know each other or you could end up dead like me.

    Moral of the story "There is no viable substitute to overcrowding"

    Post edited by Ssmann at 2012-10-11 12:30:44 pm
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar October 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    :-)) :-)) :-))
  • ShukriShukri October 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • JamesJames October 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Serjit, no wonder your HM keeps close tabs on your $$$. :-)) :-)) :-))
  • megatronmegatron October 2012
    Posts: 832
    :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • SsmannSsmann October 2012
    Posts: 164
    Bro James.....hahahahhahhaha......good one!

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