Using coral to buffer pH experiment
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Just to share my 2 day old experience on using corals to buffer pH. I bought 20kg of the largest size coral bits at RM1.50 per kg and split them into 5 bags. First day I put in all 5 bags and within half a day, my pH had shot up to 8.4 I immediately removed 3 bags and waited to measure the pH again the next day. In the morning the pH had gone back to 7.4, so I once again dumped in the remaing 3 bags and by 4pm, my pH had gone back to 8.4 lol. This time i removed 2 bags and left 3 bags in the filter and will measure the pH again tomorow. Will keep everyone updated on this little experiment. Pond size 13 ton, temp 28-30 degree and all kois doesn't seem bothered with the pH swing.
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-08-27 06:02:55 pm
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Woow Bro Nivek,
    Corals are that potent eh......I mean can bring the pH up that fast.......I have taken note of this...... :) Thanks Bro for the must neeed info...........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Disclaimer : this ah pek scientist dunno nuts what he's doing so please take the results with a pinch of salt hahaha :)
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-08-27 06:19:41 pm
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Nivek,
    You are so humble! What is important is information sharing....... :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar August 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Another Mr. Experiment :-))
    or should be called mad scientist :-D
    Post edited by Bthineshkumar at 2012-08-27 06:56:22 pm
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Praying hard that poor innocent kois don't become victims of my exploits lol :)
  • MikeMike August 2012
    Posts: 346
    U r brave Nivek ... Hope nothing untoward happen to your kois. Good thing that they are adapting well to the PH swing.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro Mike thanks and keeping fingers crossed.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Need to also mention that I changed 40% of the water on the first day after testing pH8.4 For the second day I changed only 10% after testing 8.4. Feeding frequency remains the same. It is now raining very heavily for the past 1 hour so that might skew tomorrow's readings.
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    I am just surprised that the coral chips can influence the pH shift that rapidly......
    Humm........those that used coral chips have to be very careful ya!
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  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Day 3 - After continuous rain last night, this morning's pH reading is back to 7.2. Will not add any more bags of corals and will test again after work. Water temp 27.1 degrees.

    Water temp fluctuates between 30 (afternoon) to 27 (early mornings). Will study if temp influences pH as those pH8.4 readings were taken in the afternoons while 7.2 were all taken early mornings.
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-08-28 08:10:10 am
  • AnuarAnuar August 2012
    Posts: 688
    Bro Nivek,

    I read that dissolved oxygen level can influence ph, where low DO will influence the water to have lower ph. The ph level is supposed to be the lowest when the pond has the lowest DO, supposedly to be very early morning, which coincidently will also likely show the lowest temperature.

    Regards.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Great info there Bro Anuar. Might be one of the explanation to the pH swings.

    On a side note, there were no changes in the behaviour of the kois as well as their ever hungry eating habits throughout the fluctuations :)
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-08-28 09:11:41 am
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Nivek,

    Suggest recalibrate your pH meter. The corals does not explain the pH swing (if any) from 8.4 to 7.2 in a daily swing. Well at least not the amount used. As back up control suggest use the liquid based tester like Sera or Tetra wide range pH tester.

    ts
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro Lauts, yes I'm using the Tetra pH tester. Four drops into the test tube and shake kao kao :)
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Read inst. again , 7 drops i think.

  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Haha mine 4 only. High pH tester.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Just tested water again.

    Day 3:

    pH - 7.8
    temp - 29.1 degrees
    time - 1pm
    coral chips - 12kg
    pond size - 13 ton
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Nivek,
    What is the temperature swing with regards to your pond? You are using the spray bar too right? I think a temperature swing of 2 - 3 degrees in a day is OK IMO.......and these changes are very gradual......so it is fine.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro Shukri, not using any forms of cooling system. Temp swing is from 27 - 30 degrees :)

    I was just wondering if the rest of the gang would test their pH at different times of the day to see whether there's such a swing as well?
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-08-28 01:56:08 pm
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    While waiting for the others to chip in..........
    In large ponds, pH swing should be none to very minimal. For my 30 ton pond, I do not notice any subtle difference, but it keeps getting lower and lower by the day......hence my concern that I need to add more Oyster Shells like what Bro Lauts has recommended earlier e.g. like 200 kg.....then only I will have enough buffer for Alkalinity........
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  • MikeMike August 2012
    Posts: 346
    My pond temperature fluc 1 degree through out the day and my ph is 6.8 if I feed kaw kaw and 7.2 if i feed normal. No coral or oyster shell in use.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Currently mine is acting the other way round..start off at 7.2 early in the morning and end up with 8+ by evening..hahaha :)
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Slight lower pH in morning and higher pH in afternoon is expected due to different CO2 level amongst others. But very small difference only , not from 7.2 to 8. Check your kH , i think would be very very low , like 1 only. Suggest leave the corals in pond to buffer the pH, in time it should stabilise.

    Meanwhile check aeration sufficient ? How big is your biofilter and how much feeding ? Water change regime? I assume your tester is still valid , why not get another tester?

    ts
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur August 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Laut,

    If pond cover by algae, it can have 1 degree pH swing.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Good points noted bro lauts :)

    Just took another reading at 5pm and pH seems to have stabilized at 7.8 similar to the reading I took at 1pm today.
    Post edited by nivek at 2012-08-28 05:14:23 pm
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Nivek,
    If you can have i.e. around 7.4 to 7.8.....that should be OK........
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  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro harry, that could be it as well since my pond has algae on the walls
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Bro Shukri, yes that's what I'm trying to aim for.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Day 4 :

    pH - 7.4 (yes!) :)
    Temp - 27.7
    Time : 0750 hrs

    pH seems to have stabilized between 7.2-7.8 range at 12kg of corals for 13 ton pond.
  • ShukriShukri August 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Good morning Bro Nivek,
    That is more like it with the pH reading....... :-D Truly a Koi Kichi....... :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Good morning bro Shukri :) yea I have the koi bug lol
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar August 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Nivek,
    Fantastic, finally the pH is stable. Now we need to handle the water cloud problem. We'll discuss during out Koi hunting :-D
  • dennis68dennis68 August 2012
    Posts: 69
    What is he best PH for koi pond ?
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar August 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    7 would be good but easily can become acidic. Better to maintain from 7.4 to 8.0. Lowest 6.8 and max 8.5
  • MikeMike August 2012
    Posts: 346
    Darn ... My lowest Phh once is 6.6 :-S
    Now maintain at 7 to 7.2 depends of the volume of feed.
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Day 4 (evening) :

    pH 7.8
    Temp 29.3
    10% water change after test

    Day 5 (morning) :

    pH 7.4
    Temp 28.3
    10% water change after test

    I believe the photosynthesis process of the algae in the morning helps to bring the pH up while the reverse at night brings the pH down. Without a buffer media like corals and oyster shells, the pH would surely be lower than the desired range after evening feed.
  • lautslauts August 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    pH ideally should be at 7.6-7.8. How well this hold or stability depends on your pond kH, carbonate hardness. kH of 3-5 would be good to hold pH steady. But most of us in Klang Valley will have source water at kH 2 , very soft . If you have pH that yo-yo much between feeding or day/night , very likely the kH is too low. So some buffers like corals, oyster would be advised esp older ponds. You need to keep some soda bicarbs too , useful during heavy rain or big water change if your pH drops to below 7.
    Check your source water pH too , mine is 9 in Rawang. :O . We know ammonia is very dangerous in high pH, so i am extra careful to add to a QT tank, knowing that ammo is always higher in QT. Most of us overlook this point ie pH of source water.

    ts
  • niveknivek August 2012
    Posts: 1,251
    Luckily my source is pH7.2

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