Gulping (Lunking) and O2 saturation - Links to Sinking Disease .
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Hi guys,

    http://www.koiquest.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10966#p97311

    I came across below discussion on Gulping and Sinking disease between M.Snaden and Duncan.G
    Link to Gas (o2,nitrogen,total disolved gas) saturation. Comments by Duncan G. on high TDS a possible cause of sinking. Very interesting reading and scary too. ie too deep ie more than 6ft plus high gas saturation (above 95% ) a possible cause for Sinking . Note M.Snaden's observation deep ponds with heavy aeration links to sinking problem. Apparently it is easy to reach o2 saturation in deeper ponds than shallow ones. Duncan Griffith is the person who debunked the myth of using Formalin with salt, Telmin(Mebendazole) on flukes and other things abt salt (shared by Paul recently).

    Interesting and insightful read. (sweat)

    :-) :-)

    rgd
    ts

  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Dear TS, sure all these are interesting sources for reading. But I really wonder what the Japanese are saying. So far, the 'Mat Salleh' are saying all these. It will be nice if these information can be confirmed by the Japanese..... Just my two cents.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Shukri,

    If you read , what is mentioned by M.Snaden is based on his observation and told to him by the Japanese breeders. I think the Japanese breeders would not have so much time spent with individual kois and particular ponds to be able to comment. i think it's hobbyist like us that spend day in day out looking at their pond and kois that would be able to notice these things. We hobbyist can then tweek it to confirm/discard these. We do have a few notable kois that succumb to this sinking disease. Hence the reason i posted.

    :-) :-)
    rgd
    ts
  • etanoetano November 2010
    Posts: 471
    I agree with Bro Lau, Japanese breeders are not the same as hobbyists. They don't keep koi like we do. In fact, I find hobbyists have more knowledge when it comes to health issue.

    Two of my koi were seen gulping a few weeks ago. I transferred them to my Q-tank and soak in Interpet Anti-Parasite for a week. They went back to the pond 2 days ago and all gulping have stopped. They were not given any food in the Q-tank and I fast those in the pond at the same. I contemplated treating the whole pond but I don't think it's necessary because it may be fluke infections.

    Bro Raymond Hew said gulping can also be caused by too much feeding which coincidentally maybe true because I was pumping my koi with high protein food before that. He also said if left unattended, they are likely to suffer long-term sinking problem.
    MyKoiKichi.com ~ A new koi blog.
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    To share,

    A few kois was flashing(no gulping) so i treated with PP 4ppm and then few days later , MG& F(Misaki). Now a few gulping after these treatment. All the while salted to 0.25% and extra aeration ( on top of 5 Hiblow and two venturi and two waterfall. :-O My pond is 6.5ft deepest point slope. Gas saturation per Snaden's observation ?? I have one 78cm that was gulping for some months now , started sinking abt 3weeks already.

    I am considering to reduce the aeration after completing treatment , and see what happens to the gulpers. Difficult to conclude anything as gulping could be caused by the medication/salting/parasite etc . I measured o2 few times previously , reading was 7+ ppm at 28.4deg C, thats more than 95% :-O . I thought not possible unless o2 concentrator , but deeper ponds easier to achieve higher saturation apparently. And there are different levels of o2 saturation at different depth. We normally measures the top water level only ? Well the more you read , the more you don;t know :-)

    :-) :-)
    rgd
    ts
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Also, to share with friends here, I took the advice from Bro SC that I should PP my pond as the pH has steadily reducing, no matter how much I change the water. When I PPied the pond with 1gm per ton of KMNO4, the pH is back to being stable. Somehow, the excess bacteria have something to do with the pH being low.....
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-09 05:50:10 am
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    I noticed that constant gulping are normally caused by irritation to the gills. And we need to find out what this is........

    And TS, in your case I am quite sure that TDO is not the problem. And I do not believe that the salt level is the cause either for your case.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-09 05:50:22 am
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    <blockquote rel="null">null</blockquote>

    Man, after reading what these guys have to say..................... well, I am back to square one! I know nothing now........possibly we should let the kois live in its natural environment.........I surely have to do a lot of koi soul searching........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • PH8PH8 November 2010
    Posts: 683
    Bro Lau,

    First off, thank you for starting this thread and pointing us to the very interesting exchange between Mike and Duncan. I felt that I should participate in this thread as I, like many others who will admit it, have a number of fish with the sinking condition.

    My own observations are below. These are merely anecdotal observations and I am by no means correct. I don't think anyone alive today knows the truth anyway.

    1. Factors
    There are many different factors which could result in what we know as sinking disease. Not just 1 factor. But I believe the main 2 factors are prolonged pumping of the fish with high protein food and internal bacterial infections.

    2. Sex
    Sinking disease can afflict males too, not just female- my male beni kikokuryu has the condition.

    3. TDS
    Bro Daniel measured my pond TDS last Friday at only 51ppm, whereas my source water had 40ppm TDS. My filter was washed 3 days before the measurement, so perhaps that contributed to the lowish reading. I feel that there is no link between TDS and sinking disease. Just my own belief.

    4. Chronic Gulping
    Chronic gulping is almost always the earliest sign of sinking disease. If you have a chronic gulper in the pond, it is very likely (though not necessarily) going to end up having sinking disease. As to why they gulp when they are in the early stages of sinking disease, I have absolutely no idea, and maybe subsequent research by Mike Snaden et al can shed some light on this.

    5. Pumping Fish
    Many of us koikichi, myself included, like to bulk our fish for koi shows. Fish that win prizes normally have good thick bodies. What do you think is inside? FAT!! Too much fatty tissue around the organs will press against the organs, including the swim bladder, causing discomfort and in some cases, inability of the organ to function properly. The problem is that few of us can stand seeing skinny fishes in our pond. I think there are numerous examples of hobbyists with fish aged in their late teens, but these tend to be inferior fish, not of show quality, and hence not "force fed". Force feeding them tends to create health issues which can and do shorten the lives of koi. Unfortunately, this is the path that we kichi will continue to take. Myself included again.

    6. Internal Bacterial Infection
    On the other hand, my male kikokuryu has never been a big eater and isn't fat at all. But he still ended up with sinking disease. IMHO, his condition is not due to fats/overfeeding, but bacterial infection of the swim bladder. Overly high coliform levels in the pond water can cause this. In the case of this beni kikokuryu, it probably got afflicted 3 years ago when I had a very bad case of New Pond Syndrome, complete with a rotting animal carcass on the pond floor (couldn't see till the water cleared up 3 months later).

    7. Survival Period
    Some people have indicated that survival periods of 2 years (some even mentioned as little as 3 months) once a fish has sinking disease, but my beni kikokuryu has had it for about 3 years already and he is still alive. Interesting to note what Mike (or was it Duncan) said, that sinking disease itself doesn't kill a fish, it is perhaps secondary infections from belly ulcers which might.

    8. High O2 in Deep Ponds
    The benefits of high O2 levels in the pond are already known to most readers here. I am not sure about Mike's suggestion that high O2 level in a deep pond might have a link with sinking disease, but he has definitely seen, built and observed many more ponds than myself, so his observations are very interesting. My own recommendation is not to remove the O2 but to make the pond less deep, which is what I have done myself, though it does not seem to have eliminated the sinking problem entirely, in my case.

    Hope this contributes positively to the discussion.


    Cheers,
    Paul
  • AndySittAndySitt November 2010
    Posts: 560
    Bro Paul , welcome back... I had a sanke bought during the Momotaro Dec auction last year.. Just got news today that it developed Choman (cancer). Will post the image later as they are upgrading the image upload scripts.. The stomach looks big.. Even at Momotaro 1500 tons.. fish do get sick and have problems of their own.. So there are so many reason for our fish to go bad...
  • yysim88yysim88 November 2010
    Posts: 340
    Bro Paul, good to see your posting on a subject the cause of which is still a mystery to most of us.

    IMHO,

    1. Depth of pond beyond 5' as per Mike Snaden's observations is a possible cause but reason unknown.

    2. Excessive feeding with high protein food over long period of time which results in fatty tissues quashing the swim bladder and somehow damaging it.

    3. Bacterial infection of the swim bladder which may be indicated by high tds in pond, or bad water over long period of time as suggested by Duncan. This is a plausible explanation.

    4. Over-saturation of DO in a deep pond as observed by Mike Snaden is a bit hard to comprehend and explain.

    5. Koi that are extreme fierce eaters are likely victims of sinking disease caused by constant indigestion.

    Any known cure for sinking disease if detected early?

    Koi with sinking disease may live on for quite long but need to check the lower part of body regularly as usually ulcers may develop causing secondary infection.
    Post edited by yysim88 at 2010-11-10 06:40:46 pm
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Paul,

    Great to see your post , made my day (grin) . I realised this is one topic close to your heart and know your observations will greatly benefit the discussions. Am hoping that you could post this too over the other forum , Koiquest. Maybe your observations could point them on the right track.

    I would go along with your observation that main factors of sinking disease ie pumping high protein feed and internal bacterias. And add in group behaviour. When i had the Jumbo Maruboshi sinking in my pond , i notice two others join her sometimes in "sinking" too. When she pass on they just went about normal. I never had any gulping and sinking issues before until i started feeding more. Twice/three times more compared to previous. Now i have a few koi bulking up nicely , and few gulping and one sinking ( not pellet the koi) . Not sure this is what i wanted. Anyway i would be lowering down feed to wheatgerm soon for the big guys ( no 80cm yet) for the next 3 month and continue with the tosai/nissai in a cage ( similar to Thiamhwa/Daniel) soon.

    I think sinking disease is incurable, so reducing water level could prevent future occurence but not cure them.

    :-) :-)

    rgd
    ts

  • AndySittAndySitt November 2010
    Posts: 560
    This is my dead Momotaro Sanke while its in the 1500 ton in Japan. I guess its the same disease that killed my Dainichi showa and Paul's shiro.

    So would a fish develop cancer, form a big tummy that causes it to sink?

    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/544/3years%20old%20Sanke.JPG

    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/545/3years%20old%20Sanke%20from%20size.JPG
    Post edited by AndySitt at 2010-11-10 01:44:05 am
  • Denn7Denn7 November 2010
    Posts: 331
    So sorry to see this - what a Sanke...
  • yysim88yysim88 November 2010
    Posts: 340
    Sorry for your loss, Bro Andy. This is a really nice sanke.

    The tummy looks like my dead showa.
  • PH8PH8 November 2010
    Posts: 683
    I'm no expert in sinking disease, just sharing my observations since (unfortunately) I have some to observe in my pond. With more people sharing observations, we can perhaps form better conclusions, though still anecdotal rather than scientific in nature.

    I have also cut down my feedrate as of late. After all, my small fish are few only, no point to build their body with aggressive feeding at the expense of the health of the larger fish. Still feeding some Marubeni food (to finish the stock) but mixing with Sakai wheatgerm. Amount fed already halved, estimated 500g daily for 14 fish.

    Bro Andy, sorry about your loss, she was lovely. Yes, my shiro's body looked like that when she died, but she only started looking like that about 2 months ago, which was why I thought she was egg laden and tried the Ovaprim procedure on her. Before that, she was big but didn't really look bloated. Is this cancer? I have absolutely no idea! Why and how it developed? I have absolutely no idea!
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Paul,
    Your insights and sharing of information are invaluable to all of us. As for me, I am beginning to suspect that the koi food (i.e. pellets) that we are feeding to our kois has something to do with it.
    Any thought guys.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • AndySittAndySitt November 2010
    Posts: 560
    Well I do think that too much high protein food causes lots of problems as well. I used to feed 100% high protein and now I am using mainly wheatgerms.. Fish seems so much better..

    As for my Sanke, I was half lucky that it died this month.. If it dies next month I wont get a replacement. Momotaro agreed to let my dealer choose a replacement of similar quality.
  • koikitkoikit November 2010
    Posts: 120
    i think water quality play a bigger part than koi food... just a though..

  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Also agree with you Bro Kit. But Koi Kichis pay absolute highest priority in the water quality that I have yet to see a bad water condition nowadays among experience Kichis. Some people have 'LABORATORY CONDITION' water quality. I am not saying that this is good or bad, but I belong to another school of thought that a '+' or '-' water condition is really not that bad as we need to develop a sense of resistance in the kois. This is my two cents worth. As much as I want to say that I am more calm these days, but similarly to the others, I get tense up when I see my kois flashing and gulping which goes to show that eventhough after all these years, I am affected too by these koi behaviors........I am human too! :) :) :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • etanoetano November 2010
    Posts: 471
    There is a certain correlation between high protein food and gulping. I have never seen my koi gulped in the past in all my hobbyist years but they started gulping after I pumped them with very high protein food (>55%) for several weeks. No doubt, the body girth improves tremendously. I have since mix the high protein feed with lower protein color feed, the gulping behavior has stopped after one week in the Q tank. I will monitor it closely.
    MyKoiKichi.com ~ A new koi blog.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-10 10:48:06 pm
  • DRADRA November 2010
    Posts: 89
    Assalamualaikum Shukri, Zain and God Bless to Paul and everyone else,

    From my personal experience, detecting and treating Sinking Disease early is vital.

    After consulting Kentaro, I treated a big eater 71cm koi as follows :

    1. with Ciprobay 100
    2. 1ml injection every fourth day.
    3. all in three jabs over a week
    4. not feeding the patient koi for 30 days is extremely important.
    5. at my own discretion I kept the FG tank salted at approx. 0.15% to help add bouncy for the koi.
    This was two years ago and thank God the koi has not had a relapse since. Just prior to this, a 65cm koi with similar problems and treated with three jabs over three days and not starved did not survive. She always remained a "gulper", developed visibly enlarged tummy and needless to say died.

    Best Regards

    Razif Abdullah
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Guys,

    I had a discussion recently with a pond equipment supplier that frequents Japan quite often. He told me a likely reason is due to chemical/additive whatever , used to gel the koi pellets. To make it clump and not breakup in water? ;-I

    Anyway , if i read correct in the article, air gets into the air sac via blood(normal) and gulping(less frequent). Instead of air , water gets into the air sac in some sinking kois not all.

    :-) :-)

    ts



    Post edited by lauts at 2010-11-10 11:06:41 pm
  • koikitkoikit November 2010
    Posts: 120
    bro shukri n Elmen.. of course food play a part too.. i personally feed wheatgerms to my koi as staple food sometime wit 20% colour food ... hardly see "touch wood" gulping or sinking except when the chamber need a clean, but usually is a particular showa wit the gulping behaviour, once the chamber is 'cleared' the showa go back to her normal eating behaviour.. may b she sensitive to 'foulty' water in my settlement chamber..
    wit 'lower' quality water compared to 'normal good water' or simple words when water turn bad digestion of koi might b affected thus cause lots of internal problem may b?
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    <blockquote rel="DRA">Assalamualaikum Shukri, Zain and God Bless to Paul and everyone else,

    From my personal experience, detecting and treating Sinking Disease early is vital.

    After consulting Kentaro, I treated a big eater 71cm koi as follows :

    1. with Ciprobay 100
    2. 1ml injection every fourth day.
    3. all in three jabs over a week
    4. not feeding the patient koi for 30 days is extremely important.
    5. at my own discretion I kept the FG tank salted at approx. 0.15% to help add bouncy for the koi.
    This was two years ago and thank God the koi has not had a relapse since. Just prior to this, a 65cm koi with similar problems and treated with three jabs over three days and not starved did not survive. She always remained a "gulper", developed visibly enlarged tummy and needless to say died.

    Best Regards

    Razif Abdullah</blockquote>

    Welcome on board Dato',
    And your first post on a very important subject matter. Ciprobay and no eating regime as a treatment, worked in your case. Thanks for sharing your experience.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • yysim88yysim88 November 2010
    Posts: 340
    Hi Bro Shukri and Dato Razif,

    We are helping a friend to treat his Yonsai Isa Showa (70cm) for sinking disease. We have injected the koi with 3 jabs of antibiotics (Ciprobay 100 and Romicacin). After reading Dato Razif's posting, asked my friend to stop feeding the koi. Will keep you guys posted of the development.
  • cookcpucookcpu November 2010
    Posts: 462
    Recently, I have this showa that keep coming up to the surface and then blow out bubbles through the gill. Is this what you call gulping.

    This happen last week after I have dose Biotope into the pond and this koi started to jump up of the water and blow bubbles through the gill.
  • DRADRA November 2010
    Posts: 89
    <blockquote rel="cookcpu">Recently, I have this showa that keep coming up to the surface and then blow out bubbles through the gill. Is this what you call gulping.

    This happen last week after I have dose Biotope into the pond and this koi started to jump up of the water and blow bubbles through the gill.</blockquote>

    Hi Cookcpu

    Two different reasons:

    1. If the koi gulps and blows out bubbles through it's gills immediately as it swims away, then the cause is gill irritation. Could be due to Bio-talk?
    2. In the second instance it gulps and starts to sink again. It only releases bubbles when it nears or reaches bottom of pond. This is normally swim bladder problem and the disease could be quite advanced.

    Regards

    Razif Abdullah
  • cookcpucookcpu November 2010
    Posts: 462
    <blockquote rel="DRA"><blockquote rel="cookcpu">Recently, I have this showa that keep coming up to the surface and then blow out bubbles through the gill. Is this what you call gulping.

    This happen last week after I have dose Biotope into the pond and this koi started to jump up of the water and blow bubbles through the gill.</blockquote>

    Hi Cookcpu

    Two different reasons:

    1. If the koi gulps and blows out bubbles through it's gills immediately as it swims away, then the cause is gill irritation. Could be due to Bio-talk?
    2. In the second instance it gulps and starts to sink again. It only releases bubbles when it nears or reaches bottom of pond. This is normally swim bladder problem and the disease could be quite advanced.

    Regards

    Razif Abdullah
    </blockquote>

    Thank you Bro Razif Abdulah,

    I believe my koi is #1 situation where the koi gulps and swim away. He do park in the noon time when the weather is hot same as other koi in the pond.

    I guess I better monitor the koi for a while and maybe give a dose of prazi pro if it still continue to gulps.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau November 2010
    Posts: 1,053
    Hi all brudders & sisters,

    I have a koi(60+ cm) that had gulping problem before. Not that I was trying to treat her as i myself not sure how to cure it. But by accident, I transferred her to my small pond(slightly under 2 ft depth) for "free colour food zone". Then I had new comers which has caused discomfort to the housed kois even after a week of quarantine.

    Then I started to notice reddish fin + rotting fins on the 3 new comers after a week. Treated all of them but a week after that, the rest of the kois were getting the same symptom. Then I hv treated the whole pond with PP. One of the shiro's scale was red( maybe early stage of ulser). So I injected it 3 times(once a day) with Lyncomycin(mind my spelling). At night in the Qtank, I add 2ppm PP from 8pm till 10am. This was done for 3 nights.

    The good part of this treatment, i have not seen this shiro gulping air anymore. Maybe it's just a coincident.

    Regards
    Ikk
  • KaajKaaj November 2010
    Posts: 376
    <blockquote rel="DRA"><blockquote rel="cookcpu">Recently, I have this showa that keep coming up to the surface and then blow out bubbles through the gill. Is this what you call gulping.

    This happen last week after I have dose Biotope into the pond and this koi started to jump up of the water and blow bubbles through the gill.</blockquote>

    Hi Cookcpu

    Two different reasons:

    1. If the koi gulps and blows out bubbles through it's gills immediately as it swims away, then the cause is gill irritation. Could be due to Bio-talk?
    2. In the second instance it gulps and starts to sink again. It only releases bubbles when it nears or reaches bottom of pond. This is normally swim bladder problem and the disease could be quite advanced.

    Regards

    Razif Abdullah
    </blockquote>

    Hi Dato,
    Thank you for clarifying the above. 2 of my 60cm koi have also been gulping recently. I cannot understand why, considering my feeding has always been on the heavy side. Is this affliction only noticeable in koi of a certain age/size? Neither of the mentioned koi sink though.
  • PH8PH8 November 2010
    Posts: 683
    Bro Kaaj, from my own observation, if a koi's gills are irritated by something (eg food particles or something else stuck there), it may gulp air and blow bubbles to try dislodge the obstructing object but such gulping will be short term and never chronic. If a koi is consistently gulping for 3-6 months, you can almost bet your last dollar that it is the early sign of sinking disease already. Even if the koi doesn't yet park at the bottom or swim to the bottom after gulping. It will, later down the road.

    Usually gulping by isolated fish is not an indication of gill disease as this would more likely affect many, if not all, fish in the pond.

    In terms of age, I have seen koi as young as nisai (not mine) with sinking problems. I don't think the sinking problem applies to older fish only, though obviously the longer time alive means that it has been subject to more "abuse" from us ignorant owners!

    Just my 2c, maybe I am wrong.
    Post edited by PH8 at 2010-11-14 09:58:55 am
  • ThiamHwaThiamHwa November 2010
    Posts: 260
    In the March 2009 Nichirin issue, there was a koi talk article entitled ' Koi Keeping in Spring ' by 3 very senior Japanese koi hobbyists i.e. Takahashi, Akimori & Taojiri.

    Here are some of their points of discussions:-

    It is important that one should not over feed their koi when the water has becomes warm enough for feeding in Japan. Over feeding may cause gill diseases. Symptoms
    of gill diseases are inactive koi, koi which rolls badly or loops in swimming and often rubs it's gills against the walls or any objects in the pond.

    Detecting this disease as early as possible is important for a cure. When a koi stop swimming and drift with the water in the corners, it is too late. In appearance, their
    eye parts become sunken.

    Good points in koi keeping:-

    Avoid quick increase of foods or the water and koi will be unhealthy. If need to
    increase food when water temperature goes up, increase the koi foods gradually.

    When feeding start, filtration chambers should be check and clean more frequently.

    Thank you.
    Post edited by ThiamHwa at 2010-11-14 12:42:48 pm
  • KaajKaaj November 2010
    Posts: 376
    Dear Paul.
    I think i speak for most - it is great seing you post once more :)

    From what you have posted -
    1. My 2 koi are isolated.
    2. They are definite gulpers. The nissai is more severe than the sansai.

    I have noticed that post gulping they swim downward, but do not stay at the bottom. This is a new symptom altogether for me to look out for, and it is worrying.
  • AnuarAnuar November 2010
    Posts: 688
    Bro Kaaj and all,

    About a couple of months ago, my female shiro was gulping consistently, i.e. 4-5 times per minute. Actually she started gulping for a couple of months, until I got irritated and decided to try something (I am an advocate of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it). Like what was mentioned, she would blow bubbles immediately when she got back under water.

    Bro Zain suggested prazi but I could not find it anywhere. Atari suggested Misaki AP3 which contains prazi and treats internal parasite in addition to external parasites. My pond water turned foul after 2 treatments (the complete course is over 5 days), naturally I panicked, did 30% water change and stopped the treatment. To my surprise, the gulping totally stopped.

    But somehow, it came back a few days ago, my suspicion is that the parasites eggs could have hatched a few days after I stopped treatment since I didn't complete the whole course.

    I just treated the medication just now, hopefully water can be maintained for another 5 days. I will keep you guys updated.
  • lautslauts November 2010
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Anuar,

    Are your kois flashing too with the gulping? Did you also apply antiparasite on the bottom drain stand pipes too? i think many reinfection is due to this, as most hobbyist will forget that bottom drain is the best place for parasites and their eggs. Check with Andrew (Atari) on the Prazi.

    rgd
    ts
  • AnuarAnuar November 2010
    Posts: 688
    Thanks Bro Lau on the tip. Yes, I missed out the BD stand pipes.

    The shiro does not flash, only gulp. BTW, when I observed the pond this morning, I did not notice any gulping. I overdosed the medication by 50% last night, and intend to continue until a further 4 treatments or until the water turning foul, whichever comes first.
  • ShukriShukri November 2010
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Anuar,
    2 years plus ago, I used tons or by the ruck loads of Misaki AP3. The medication is rather mild, and as I can remember, I never had fouled the water even once. Just check it out to see whether any fishes died in the pond or in the filter chambers or something must have died while medicating the pond. Or could it be because of the unpleasant smell of the medication......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2010-11-17 11:08:18 pm

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