Let's practice our selection skill...!
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Dear fellow koikichis,

    Since October is still a long way to go I-) , maybe we can fill up the waiting time by honing our selection skills - also for newbies like me to learn from the sifus' knowledge and experience. From the 6 kujakus below, which one is your favourite and let us know why...

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8031/kujakus.jpg
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
    Attachments
    kujakus.jpg 35K
  • kwchankwchan July 2012
    Posts: 131
    No. 6. Nice body and kohaku pattern. Some more netting is clear and neat with shinning white too.
  • MikeMike July 2012
    Posts: 346
    LOL Bro Pandai, you sure know how to keep the spirit going .... for me ...

    no 6
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi bro pandai,
    If I were to judge the fish as it is i.e. the best looking fish; my preferred order will be...

    No 6, 4, 5, 2, 3 and 1............
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • kwchankwchan July 2012
    Posts: 131
    Think kujaku no 6 too superior than the rest. Maybe add in this one as no 7 :)

    http://www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8031/kujakus.jpg
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-13 04:28:41 pm
    Attachments
    kujaku3.jpg 32K
  • kwchankwchan July 2012
    Posts: 131
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-13 04:27:53 pm
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    What are suppose to be the size of these kujakus? my criteria for small(50cm below) and large(50 to 70 cm) should be different.
    If these are large kois already, without a doubt the best pick would be the number 6 as it has the best body, best pattern, and very good netting which makes it expensive because it can be a strong contender for reserve GC or nongosanke GC. Number 5 looks promising as it looks like its a long big future fish with potential good body conformance. Number 4 has good skin quality clean head and most importantly looks shiny with an acceptable body conformance. kujaku 3 and especially 2 and 1 have clear sign of having helicopter body.
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Haha...! Ok lah, No. 6 has to be "disqualified". She's the Grand Champion B of Bandung Koi Show 2011 - owned by Mr. Yanto Wijaya - I copied the pic from the internet (http://www.niigata-nishikigoi.com/node/1331). I just couldn't resist her beauty! =P~ I've added now the two new contenders posted by kwchan as No. 7 and No. 8.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8036/kujakus1.jpg
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Shukri,

    If I may humbly ask, not to question your much superior knowledge and wisdom, but why did you pick No. 4 as second choice? I dare not of course tell you why I personally think that it is not good until you say why it is good... :-?
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    oooo @-)
    Now I know how good Kujaku looks like....
    Small question: Number 3, 5 and 8 looks like Male??
  • mrkoimrkoi July 2012
    Posts: 496
    Hi all,
    To make it more realistic, hereby 19 HQ Kaneko Kujaku for practice.

    Its a good idea if can explain why you choose and why u are not to choose to any refering selections. Maybe can discuss base on body conformation, skin/colour quality, pattern, tail tube etc.

    p/s : acknowledgement to Mark.

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8044/List1.JPG
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8045/List2.JPG
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8046/List3.JPG
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8047/List4.JPG
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8048/List5.JPG
    Post edited by mrkoi at 2012-07-13 07:54:15 pm
  • smokersmoker July 2012
    Posts: 715
    6 and 7. No contest.
  • smokersmoker July 2012
    Posts: 715
    bro mrkoi,
    For 12 hq kanekos, my preference would be no. 1.
  • spencertanspencertan July 2012
    Posts: 227
    Hands up number 2 for no.1 of the 12 kujakus. =;
  • mrkoimrkoi July 2012
    Posts: 496
    Bro smoker and bro spencertan, I add another 13-19.
    Post edited by mrkoi at 2012-07-13 07:27:25 pm
  • WinlimWinlim July 2012
    Posts: 161
    No 8
  • mrkoimrkoi July 2012
    Posts: 496
    Kind to explain why ?
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    To me, I will go with no. 1 and no. 7...........So many good pieces to choose from.
    Why?
    For number 1, the head area is super clean, there is shine in the pectoral fin, very balance Beni patches in terms of color, the netting look uniform, and the body conformation at this stage look promising. The most imposing looking of the lot.

    For number 7,
    Very strong overall coloration (Beni that is) and sharp lines. Potentially strong body.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • smokersmoker July 2012
    Posts: 715
    bro mrkoi, i will still go for no. 1.
    The others are good pieces too, and some are superb, but for me, no. 1 stands out.
  • mrkoimrkoi July 2012
    Posts: 496
    very good selection bro.
  • farikfarik July 2012
    Posts: 317
    no 1 for me .... just love the body and metallic shine....
  • kwchankwchan July 2012
    Posts: 131
    I prefer no 8 with nice & special kohaku pattern and clear netting .
  • HDCuHDCu July 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    I would go for my first pick number 16. These are my reasons.
    1. For a young female tosai, I want to look for a streamlined slim body line that does not show a sudden sharp angle going to the tail like kujaku number #2. The reason is that kujaku are like shiro where tail tube cannot catch up with shoulder growth. Once the kujaku starts having eggs, its middle part gets bigger causing a protruding drop belly looking more obvious. Kujaku number 16 may look thin when young but I feel it would look very proportioned and lean once it reach 60 cm and proportionately bulky once it reach 80 cm. There are of course others like number 17 that would even produce a better body though.
    2. I like the pattern of kujaku number 16 because it has a clean nose, a four step pattern that will become more evident as this kujaku grows long. Its second step even has a unique inazuma pattern
    3. the Matsuba Netting reticulation of kujaku number 16 is superb and uniform from top to bottom. The netting itself is very well defined and bigger than the rest of the batch.

    if that kujaku was available for me to buy, I would not be hesistant to get it.

    My second choice would kujaku number 11.

    My opinion is just based on pictures given and actual view of the live fish might still change my mind.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-07-13 08:59:55 pm
  • mrkoimrkoi July 2012
    Posts: 496
    Very well said bro HDCu. Indeed a very unique pattern.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur July 2012
    Posts: 808
    Agree with bro HDCu,
    No 16 need a bit bulkier to enjoy. For now, the patttern ok, with good netting and matsuba.
    From 1st impression, No 1 is very nice but too sharp angle from body to tailtube.
    But my 1st choice would be no 17, head clean, body shape ok, netting ok, in front not so nice but hhopefully can change when grow bigger. And this probably a male fish too,
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    I choose No. 7, 5, 10, 17 in order of preference. For all of them I like their overall shine and strong beni, interesting head patterns, good body confirmation, and clean head and fin.

    Hmmm... It seems that everyone's selection are quite spread out so far. Is it because this group of fish selection are well balanced or is it in the nature of selection of kujaku that the beauty is really in eye of beholder and up to individual taste? If like this, probably there wouldn't be too much fight over the GO selection later... :-"
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
    Post edited by pandai at 2012-07-14 12:26:49 am
  • gerrygerry July 2012
    Posts: 777
    No 8 for me... Good pattern n body. No helicopter trait. :)
  • mangkellmangkell July 2012
    Posts: 1,221
    I choose no17 bcoz,

    the picture is the biggest...no.
    It reminds me of my Kujamon...no..no
    I like no 17...no..no..no

    Forgot laa why I choose no17? :/ yes...yes...
    Mickeyko Ducati-Kujamon Chagreemon Brabus#Sexy-Robust
  • elwinbelwinb July 2012
    Posts: 36
    My pick on No.5, simply for its special head pattern, clean and shinning head.
  • wongyengwongyeng July 2012
    Posts: 238
    Me like 7 and 14 for its overall balanced pattern, body shape, head size. I prefer Kujaku with nice white head :P

    No. 1 because its body machiam lagi sexy !!!
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro wongyeng,
    You will not go wrong if you pick any of the 1st 12 pieces........simply awesome!
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ThiamHwaThiamHwa July 2012
    Posts: 260
    My pick is No. 5 for the following reasons:-

    1) Very balance kohaku pattern from head to tail plus a cute unique lip-stick.

    2) Strong Hi with good kiwa and sashi.

    3) Good skin and white ground luster with clear odome and face.

    4) Good metallic white colour on the pectoral fins.

    5) Even spread of the Ai ( indigo blue ) net pattern.

    6) Body conformation maybe improve further with good husbandry skill.
    Post edited by ThiamHwa at 2012-07-14 11:32:36 pm
  • koilvrkoilvr July 2012
    Posts: 59
    when we choose a tosai, we choose the perceived future of that fish which we think hold the traits that we like or if we go for a contest then we should look for what judges will like. I have no experience with koi contest so I pick one which I think will grow into the kind of kujaku I like which is nr.15. the minus point of nr.15 is that the edge of its tail fin is transparent, its tail tube somewhat looks weak, and there's a point of weak beni tone in its head.
  • wongyengwongyeng July 2012
    Posts: 238
    Based on bro Pandai's 6 picks, i love 4,5,6... :P
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai,
    I had accidentally missed your question as per below:

    Bro Shukri,

    If I may humbly ask, not to question your much superior knowledge and wisdom, but why did you pick No. 4 as second choice? I dare not of course tell you why I personally think that it is not good until you say why it is good...
    ......................................................................
    This is how I see it (at least from the photo). Sometimes looking at the fish physically is a different matter. I have judged the fish as per the 6 fishes.
    1) The head is clean.
    2) Potentially a female, and the body looked strong and can further bulk. This is second best in terms of body when comparing the 6 Kujakus. Whether the tail tube can catch up with the rest of the body remain to be seen.
    3) The Beni patches looked balance and the lines are sharp enough.
    4) Clean pectoral, Dorsal and Caudal fin.
    5) The netting could be better but is still OK.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-15 10:44:32 pm
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai,
    As you can see, different people like different kois. This is the beauty of the hobby. If everyone likes the same kois, then the dealers and farms will go bust. Some people like body conformation (like me and Pak Wahyu), others would prefer solid colors and quality skin texture, while there are others that like good patterns.

    Well, if you have all these attributes on a particular koi, then you have a grand winner. So take your pick; a fantastic pattern on an average body VERSUS a fantastic body with an average pattern. I will go with the later........

    Appreciation of a koi is rather personal and individual, but a Show Quality Koi should have as much as possible these attributes: Body Conformation, Color/skin quality & tecture, and dropped jaw pattern.

    Just sharing my two cents worth..........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-15 10:41:52 pm
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Thanks bro Shukri for the belated but very comprehensive answer. I'm glad I saw the same thing - the netting could have been better which in this case, No. 5 has better overall netting. The clean head and fins and body shape are definitely its strong points. The kiwa not very sharp to my eye though but then again it may be the low quality pic. Thanks sifu for the lesson.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Just like choosing Miss Universe... :>
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Tau pun bro! :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • AgustinAgustin July 2012
    Posts: 1
    I prefer no.4. Just let her grow about 2 years more.
  • yy988yy988 July 2012
    Posts: 62
    hi all

    my selection will be no 16 (1st choice)
    because of it relatively good patern and good body
    Scale and head conformation is there

    second choice is no 6
    my selection criteria, clean head and clean netting
    good body and good beni
  • lautslauts July 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    This is a good thread, much learning gained from the selection sifus (Y) Now with all the info , much more pressure on Yamakoshi to bring in good pieces for the GO :-)) :-))
    My choice is a toss between 1 and 12. More fukurin ie the shiny white area than the dark indigo colours. This lighter background will show the beni better and clearer ?, which is my preference and may not be important . I find as kujakus grows they will tend to gain black spots or melanism on pectoral fins and body , hence i will get one with minimum signs of melanism hence 1 is better. Bodywise better too. i really like the face of 12, reminds me of kabuki actors painted faces.

    ts
  • megatronmegatron July 2012
    Posts: 832
    Another Kujaku of my previous collection to share here.

    koianswers.com/discussion/download/8151/My April 2008 Kujaku 001a.JPG
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Daniel,
    What happen? The koi flew back to Japan aaar?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • megatronmegatron July 2012
    Posts: 832
    She grown up to 76cm in my pond but I sold it, a year later she decided to go back to Japan.
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Daniel,
    She got heart broken la........aisayman.....

    BTW, is it from Kaneko? I wonder who has Kujaku Tosai for sale now?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • megatronmegatron July 2012
    Posts: 832
    Yes. She is from Kaneko. She was harvested from Jandabaik at 36cm from tosai (18cm). One of the GO earlier on. I am sure you know where I bought when I said mud pond from Jandabaik. We have not got Kujaku GO for long time. Perhaps, we may consider mud pond GO, party time during harvest day. What say you?

    Btw, I have not seem many kujaku tosai lately. But it has been a lot for Asagi & Shusui leh!!
    Don't ask me why!!!
  • spencertanspencertan July 2012
    Posts: 227
    Here is my kujaku........
    Unfortunately like what most hobbyists would say, the good koi always fly back to Japan first..... Earlier this year in May when I did a photography and measuring session on my kois, this fella probably suffered a heart attack and flew back to Japan. When it was released into the pond, after awhile it came to the surface gasping for air and flipped overside......
    http://s1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Spencer_Tan/?action=view&current=IMG_3740.jpg
  • farikfarik July 2012
    Posts: 317
    wow...bro spencer...real nice kujaku...sorrry for your loss bro...
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    It looks like the nice big Kujaku easily will fly back to Japan......
    I wonder why? Heart attack perhaps.........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
    Post edited by Shukri at 2012-07-18 03:51:18 pm
  • yy988yy988 July 2012
    Posts: 62
    perhaps the team here can share the good upkeeping kujaku beside good tread of lineage
    (drunk)
  • raymond_ongraymond_ong July 2012
    Posts: 90
    Bro Spencer, a great Kujaku with a nice placement of beni and nice pine cone scale. Too sorry to hear of its journey back to Japan
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Spencer,
    Fantastic piece, sorry for the loss

    TK
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Shukri,

    Yesterday was in KL for a quick business meeting with client. I took a diversion to Atarikoi in Tropicana on my way to Subang airport. As time was limited, just glance through some of the stocks and they have few Kujaku tosai. Never bowl as I was late for my flight. You might want to check them out.

    If I know Gosanke having arrival last night, would had stayed overnight just to check the new stock :-(

    Tk
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro TK,

    Which farm does the kujaku tosais come from? And how much?

    Atarikoi Taman Desa also have a few new arrivals last weekend. RM180 a piece. I was there looking for my measuring tub but they don't have one in stock. I ended up "accidently" buying one of these kujaku tosai... :-D

    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/8237/kujaku.jpg
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
    Attachments
    kujaku.jpg 38K
  • gerrygerry July 2012
    Posts: 777
    Hahahahaha...

    Bro Pandai,

    Accident la konon..... :-))

    Which one you bought?
  • ShukriShukri July 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro pandai,
    Sure! Who like 'ACCIDENTS.'........ :-)) :-D
    With the exceptions of this one.........only purchased one by accident, the rest by non accident....... :-))
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Haha... Gerry, just want to practice my kujaku selection skills...! And also to see whether my pond is suitable for kujaku as I have never had one before - all in preparation for the GO end of this year...!!! :p oooppsss... supposed to be a secret! :-))

    The picture above was not very clear as I took it with my BlackBerry only. I took the one in the middle - applying all the knowledge Sifu Shukri taught me - overall lustre of the scales, even netting, even beni and good body shape (for a tosai that is!). The bonus is extra white head compared to the rest, balance pattern, extra big mouth (for good eating later haha!) and slightly bigger in size compared to its 40 plus peers in the same pond. I will get better picture this weekend, if I can manage to find the measuring tub.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • pandaipandai July 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    It's also nice to see how their colour changes depending on angle and amount of sunlight -they look more yellowish/goldish in the pond but more reddish in the viewing tub.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar July 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro Pandai,

    Sorry I did not quiry on the farm details as I was really rushing. I only spent like 15 minutes there. I scared of the massive jab around Subang, so no choice but leave early.

    I think luckily I had no time to roam around otherwise I would had "accident" there...
    :-))

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