Ideal pond water turn over rate
  • ShukriShukri June 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi there koi kichis,
    As I am planning to change my filtration system, just wondering what will be ideal for the pond water turnover rate?
    This is one department that I am unsure of. Previously, people are talking about a minimum of once per hour. Will
    more be better for the water quality? I am open for ideas and opinions.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2012
    Posts: 0
    Bro shukri,

    am not a veteran but i do like the turn over more then once in an hour depends on filtration i know that water movement on the surface produce more 02 right?the more 02 is good for BB in the pond system to help removed any ammo,etc.but as i said,not a veteran in this hobby.
  • AnuarAnuar June 2012
    Posts: 688
    Bro Shukri,

    This should be an interesting topic, particularly for compact filtration set up using bead filters, or any other pressurized mechanism. Even at once an hour, the turnover at the filters will be very high given the small water volume. Say if the filter volume is 5% of the total pond volume, an hourly turnover will result in 20X turnover in the filter, sounds a bit extreme but is this how the pressurized boxed filter supposed to work?

  • HDCuHDCu June 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    It is my opinion that the higher the turnover the better as long as the water gets enough contact time for the Bacteria to work on it. If higher turnover results in adequate contact time ( depends on the efficiency and type of filter medium) then water quality will stay better even in overstocked or overfeeding conditions.

    Higher turnover would also result in better current and higher dissolved oxygen but the drawback is power cost increases.

    I am not sure bead filter can achieve a 20x turnover as this would require a very high power input. Bead filter works because the surface area contact of the filter medium is very high while frequent backwashing helps remove trapped detrius and dead bacteria. My concern with bead filters is whether it can remove all the accumulated detrius over a long period of time.
  • ShukriShukri June 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Your comments are noted guys.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • wmc19wmc19 June 2012
    Posts: 30
    I hope if I,m right to understand water turnover rate is highly recommended at 1x per hour. my pond volume is 12 ton. ,my filter size is only about 20% .Do I need a pump with 12 ton vol/per hour capacity or ?? In.this case the water passing through the filter will be "fast flowing" .This will be more mechanical filtration but we also need bio;logical effect??
  • lautslauts June 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    On flow thro , filters consist of mechanical and bio filteration. Mechanical filter , faster the better but depends on
    a) how fast filters are clean - Auto cleaning and backflushing often.
    b) filter material used - Mats, brushes does not support fast flows.

    If you clean once weekly , no point to having fast flowthro, it would have contaminated the water column and waste would be reduced to fines by water action making filtration even more difficult.

    On biofilters , there must be sufficient dwell time for bacteria action to reduce ammo to nitrate. If you read Bito, there is such a thing as overactive biofilters where very high nitrate is generated. You can have very high flow thro with very high stocking but high nitrate resulting will negate all your efforts.

    So what is ideal turnover rate ? Same as asking what is the ideal speed for driving , some say 90 others 110 maybe 180 ? ?
    i say dependent on your pond ie feeding , stocking, filtration media/method and pond set up :)

  • %5BDeleted+User%5D[Deleted User] June 2012
    Posts: 0
    Bro laut,

    my pond is around 6000 liter.25% filtration.3 chambers.pumps i think either over killing the pond size with 14000 ltr/hr with 1 bypass back to the same chamber for pumping additional 02 to what i think it does.will that be too fast for my filtering?
  • HDCuHDCu June 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Lauts is correct in saying that there is no ideal turnover rate as there are a number of factors to consider.

    If your filter media and your filter size can lets say perform at 90 percent efficiency at slower flow rate, if you increase the flow rate by double, you wont get 100 percent efficiency but may instead drop to 30 percent efficiency. since its doubled flowrate its only 60 percent efficient as compared to before. example 10,000 liters per hour x 90 percent equals to 9000 liters of treated water per hour vs. 20000 x 60 percent equals to 12000 liters of treated water. Note the diminishing return of efficiency given the double power input.

    If you designed with filter media that can house much more bacteria given a smaller space, you may actually be getting 60 percent efficiency but at double the turnover rate, but you get to achieve 100 percent efficiency at the double turnover rate. A good example is the bakki shower with bactera house which recommend a minimum of 2x per hour

    Bro Ronnie,

    As you did not mention your filter media and shape and design of your filters, its hard to predict whether its too fast or not.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-06-15 05:34:27 pm
  • wmc19wmc19 June 2012
    Posts: 30
    Bro HDCu
    Please explain how you determine 90% efficiency or slower flow rate?
    My 12 ton pond have pump for 12000 litre per hour capacity and my filter(,20% )have 3 chambers, 2 x rough mats and final bio-rings, up-down flow type.
    What type of media and what amount,(area, kg,etc) do you propose.? Thanks
    I have 18 medium 35 cm to 65cm, koi, water is clear .
  • HDCuHDCu June 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro wmc19,

    I am speaking with regards to hypothetical figures with regards to percentages and efficiencies as well as performance.

    The best way to determine how efficient your filtration setup for your given bioload is to test your water after one hour of heavy feeding. Get sample of your water one hour, two hours, four hours and eight hours(with no feeding in between) after a heavy feeding session(25 percent more than what you normally feed). Inspect water clarity and test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, in the different time intervals(if you can compared the different color test the better) while observing when there is more foaming at surface( a sign of dissolved organic compound). If your after one hour feeding water quality is exactly the same as your after eight hours after feed water quality is exactly the same then your filtration is good enough. Please remember that clear water does not mean the best water quality for kois.

    Basing on the above results, you have more or less an idea of the efficiency of your present filtration as such you can easily decide whether to prepare to cull, increase water change rate, maintain filtration, improve filtration, change or add media, etc, before your water quality deteriorates as your kois grow more.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-06-15 09:21:23 pm

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