Will Matron and Demiline kill small fish like guppy?
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    I am ZERO when comes to koi medication and deseases.

    My koi is infected with parasite. Went to Tmn Desa yesterday was recommended and prescribed with mixture of Matron and Demiline. I forgot to ask if these things kill my guppy? I have hunderds of guppy in my pond.

    I was told to mixed the powder in a container and pour it to the pond running the pump for 7 days and 2nd treatment for another 7 days if the parasite dont die. Do I need to change water? 100% after treatment? Please help my koi is suffering.
  • ShukriShukri May 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi Stevie,
    What is the dosage i.e. how many grams per metric ton recommended by the dealer? The second dosage is to kill all new hatchings. I would suggest that you change minimum 25-30 percent water between dosage and afterward. No feeding during medication and UV lights off.

    If it is good for your koi, should be OK for the guppies.

    How big is your pond and where are you staying?
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    I am not sure the dosage. They (Gosanke Koi Service Centre) asked for my pond volume, did some calculation and give me two dosages of the mixture.

    The bill details:

    Matron, Quantity x5, Unit Price 2, Amount RM10
    Demiline (or Dimilin?), Quantity x 20, Unit Price 1, Amount RM20

    I do not understand the bill about the Qty and Unit price. It could be read as Matron Qty 5 x 2 units = 10 Qty? and Dimilin Qty 20 x 1 unit = 20 Qty? Qty = gramm? Anyway, I have to trust their experties, right?

    My pond size is 14' x 4' x 3'. filter 4 x 4 x 3 and with external trickle filter and sand filter. I have very clear water, no UV (broken already many times) I dont use since a long time. The pond is exposed to rain and shine which is not good but I got no choice. Not sure if the clear water is due to sand filter filtration or the filter that is working.

    I will start the treatment this Sat after fishing out some guppies, just in case they die on me!

    You mean no need to change water starting with the first dose? Do I need to clean the filter just before the dosage or after?

    Am in puchong jaya. Always got to go to Tm Desa or Jln puchong for supplies. My neighbour get his supplies from Kepong.
  • ashfaqashfaq May 2012
    Posts: 799
    Do kois dont eat guppies, if we mix?
    What is the advantage of adding guppies in the Koi pond?
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    Koi eat no guppies. I seperated few koi with few guppies and did not bother to feed them for one week. The guppies survived, all of them.

    Having guppies to take care of small organism if any to be eaten by guppies.

    You got to have hidding places for young guppies. The babies need time to hide and grow. The guppy population reduces if you have no young babies. Having water plants isolated from koi will allow young guppies to grow to adults preventing koi from eating the plants. Young guppies will be eaten by their parents if there is no place to hide the minute they are born. I have hundreds of them, maybe thousands as my friends children collect from my pond and each time in 30 to 50 or more. Sad to say they die in the aquarium over feeding and change water without anti chlorine, I think.
  • ashfaqashfaq May 2012
    Posts: 799
    Thanks brother stevie, will also try to introduce some guppies ;-)
    Thanks,
    Ashfaq from India-Chennai
  • ChengAunChengAun May 2012
    Posts: 925
    I never liked having too many guppies in the pond, especially if they breed. My candy is the koi and guppies are no beauty from the top.
    Be updated in the world of koi. Jangankan seperti "Koi di bawah bottom drain"
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    You never know Cheng Aun. Koi for me. Guppies for children. And when it is in hundreds the large numbers make it specially nice to look at and they stay on the surface.

    Children like to feed the koi and catch the guppies. The next thing is getting thier parents to buy them aquariums. You never know how happy they are having themselves the catch and bring home. There were once I removed all the plants and the guppies reduced to less than hundred, some kids came and sad faces. I wasnt sure for over a year thought that koi had eaten them. There I learned, we need plants for the babies to hide.

    Everyone who came to see my pond are amazed how the hundreds of tiny little guppies can live with koi side by side. The same familiar question, " Koi dont eat guppies? " So we thougt big fish eats small fish. Not always true.
  • HermanHerman May 2012
    Posts: 46
    Hi Stevie,

    Pond size 14' x 4' x 3' n filter 4' x 4' x 3' as u mentioned = 6000 liter or 6 ton of water, pls correct me if i was wrong. 1 ton = 1 gram. My experience is at least 2 times of dimillin i NEED to apply, but usually i apply 3 times to fully kill the parasites. Each dosage 6 grams for 3 consecutive weeks. I applied dimillin b4 n the guppies r still alive. This is just my experience, but i hope it would help. :)
    Post edited by Herman at 2012-05-18 08:50:11 am
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    Thanks Herman and Shukri for your assurance.

    Herman, if 1g for 1 ton that means I should reduce the dosage in the packet of 10g of dimillin to 6g.

    So there are two ways to go about it. First do according to the dealer's recommendation with 2 treatments with more concentration. 2nd go according to your recommendation of 3 treatment, mix the 2 packets and divided it into 3 packets where each packet contain 6.67g of dimillin.

    By the way, what's that Matron for?
  • ShukriShukri May 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    It is fine for Dimilin treatment of 1 - 2 grams per metric ton......not a problem.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    Thanks Shukri for your advice. Just another question.

    Will the dimilin and matron disappear or diminish itself after 7 days? If I change 30% of the water and if it the first dosage still present with 70%, the 2nd dosage added will it be too concentrated? That could be more than 2 grams per ton already? Something like 2.8g per ton! 10g x 70% + 10g => 17g for 6 ton => 2.8g per ton.
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    ChengAun, You are right guppies are not good to look at from top. I just went and bought some 10 guppies with 2 species. One that is red, all red. So I can see red guppies from top and the other is golden yellow on its top unlike normal black top species.
  • MikeMike May 2012
    Posts: 346
    Hi Stevie, good to see you here. I have just treat my pond with dimilin a week ago with 20g for a 14T pond. 2 treatment 5 days apart with 20% of water change before the 2nd treatment, my guppy is still around. Hope this help.

    Cheers.
  • HermanHerman May 2012
    Posts: 46
    Hi all,

    Uncle Shukri is right about the dosage. Most of the sifus (Uncle Shukri is 1 of them) or suppliers told me 2 grams r maximum per ton, Dimillin will disappear or diminish itself after 3 - 4 days. But i didn't change the water for 2nd n 3rd treatment, i only change the water after the 3rd treatment. And sorry about the matron, i don't know any info about matron. I think uncle Shukri could help up about matron, try give him a call.
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    So my guppy will survive. Thanks all for the input.

    I just introduced 10 guppies bought today. So confident hehehe. Tomorrow will start the treatment and see how the parasite disappear forever from my pond hahaha

    Mike, your interval is 5 days. I think you better stick to 7 days. I am not very sure but I think with additional a day or 2 days it allows the parasite eggs to hatch so that it be killed and have total elimination.
  • ShukriShukri May 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Stevie,
    Many of us has done this Dimilin thing, many many times!!! No sweat, trust with what has been recommended to you........ :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    Dimilin in, hehehe. Few hrs already no guppy dies. Saw one guppy took a bite at the powder (sweat) banghead . Think he is ok (rock)
    Post edited by Stevie at 2012-05-19 11:46:20 am
  • ShukriShukri May 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Stevie,
    Didn't anyone tell you that Dimilin is poisonous i.e. a pesticide...... :-))
    Don't worry, your fishes will be fine..... :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • StevieStevie May 2012
    Posts: 323
    No... :O ...But when it can kill something it has to be poisonous, so I had my hands washed with sabun but I inhaled some and felt my throat a bit dry, psycho my mind. I mean psychology and I spit and spit clearing my throat (sweat)

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