How to make Shiroji whiter ?
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    I hope bros can share and advice what you do to help make the whites whiter ?
    I notice that the koi head tends to be more yellowish... how to cure that ?
  • richardrichard April 2012
    Posts: 11
    Hi bro,

    There are many factors to improve the shiroji..1st of all the gene play the main part, then follow by water quality, and lastly the food. Food wise you can try wheatgerm where contain the garlic ingredient, believed this able to detox or you can try Hi-Silk food is good as well.
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    Thanks bro Richard.

    I m currently feeding Saki Hikari High Growth.
    I was told to provide a mix of High Growth with Saki Hikari Wheat germ.

    Your thoughts ?

    BTW, where to get Hi-Silk food ?
  • JamesJames April 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Wongyeng, did u notice the koi feeding on algae in your pond? And when u say yellow head, what size is the koi? And how is the beni intensity?
  • richardrichard April 2012
    Posts: 11
    What i know singapore diamond koi farm can get..
    Agree mix with growth and wheatgerm. Am know trying to mix the pellets with clay, let the clay abosrd to the pellets, was told this can improve the skin and shiroji and brighten the color.
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    Brother james, size of my bigger Kois are 50-60cm. Yes I notice sometimes the Kois nibble at the algae walls.

    Beni is orangey.
    Post edited by wongyeng at 2012-04-20 03:52:53 pm
  • JamesJames April 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Beni orangey and shiroji yellow... wah this is bad combination...
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    Brother james, thanks for the encouragement :D
    I like you oredi ! hahaha...
  • SengChoonSengChoon April 2012
    Posts: 443
    Bro Wongyeng,

    If I may chip in my 2 sen.

    Yellow head on a koi could be due to a couple of reasons. They are:

    i) Koi may have Yellow Head Virus ("YHV")
    ii) Skin quality of koi that may be yellowish, which could lead to head being yellow

    You can treat YHV using Remedor (Syndel product) or any other meds. As for skin quality, there are a few options to improve them, such as:

    i) Salting your pond to 0.5%
    ii) Feeding koi food that helps improve skin i.e. Super-White by Hikari, Hi-Silk, etc and control the feeding of colour food (esp for kois that can easily turn yellow after colour feed)

    Lastly, if you want a koi with very white skin quality, buy kois with good genetics. Koi with good white skin often come at a very expensive price. So you need to prepare your wallet, before you prepare the koi. :D
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    Bro SengChoon,
    Yes, thanks for the advice. Will first try out those skin whitening food... then when all else fails can consider the hold in the wallet :D
  • ShukriShukri April 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    You have said it all bro Seng Choon. A quality koi with Fuji Snow shirogi like the Loulan fish, twice GC in the All Japan has imaculate white shirogi........Similar to Kato San Dainichi Kohaku......... Evoline Snow shirogi. :-D
    I have a Hoshikin Kohaku with very good shirogi, the only problem is that this fish is a slow grower......... :-(
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • MikeMike April 2012
    Posts: 346
    Wongyeng, maybe you can try SK2 if all fails as I've read from a tread in this forum . :-D
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    Mike, why don't post yours with SK2 ? May convince others also :D
  • nocturnalnocturnal April 2012
    Posts: 376
    "You can treat YHV using Remedor (Syndel product) or any other meds"

    Abang Seng Choon :)

    can u share how do u do it, thank you
  • MikeMike April 2012
    Posts: 346
    Heh, I'll have to sneak to snap a pic of the SKII as not to disturb the minister, here is the remedor. Shu ....
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/6539/remedor.png
    Attachments
    remedor.png 103K
  • nocturnalnocturnal April 2012
    Posts: 376
    LOL Abang Mike! thanx for the pic!
    do we use on the koi's head the way home minister applies SKII on their face? :-D
  • wongyengwongyeng April 2012
    Posts: 238
    Careful not to leave your love dry for too long ! :D
  • JamesJames April 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Didn't u guys read that before SKII must apply sun block lotion. SPF500....
  • vinsonchuavinsonchua April 2012
    Posts: 163
    Reading this post make me turn white banghead
  • SengChoonSengChoon April 2012
    Posts: 443
    Hi Adik,

    Remedor is applied at 1-2gm per tonne of water. It is supposed to be used in the water as it also eliminates other bad bacteria. I wont advise applying on the face. Otherwise, you or your fish may have to go for plastic surgery after that. :-))
    Post edited by SengChoon at 2012-04-22 02:56:27 pm
  • nocturnalnocturnal April 2012
    Posts: 376
    hehehe thanx for sharing bang
    i keen to try it for YHV & hopefully the aquarium shop that i frequent here in Kluang can get it for me :)
  • harryyewharryyew May 2012
    Posts: 396
    Good evening bro wongyeng

    can you post us a typical koi of yours that you find it is bit yellowish or come with a tinge of yellow on the skin that makes you to raise the subject matter?

    Cheers
  • wongyengwongyeng May 2012
    Posts: 238
    Bro harryyew,



    Sorry about the poor video quality and due to the netting, we cannot really see too clearly. I m looking at my koromo and the big traditional showa.
  • harryyewharryyew May 2012
    Posts: 396
    Good evening Bro wongyeng

    .....from the various comments received. In your reasoned opinons what would be the most likely cause of the yellowish tinge you are experincing?

    Does it affects both the male and female or only to the female koi?

    Cheers
  • wongyengwongyeng May 2012
    Posts: 238
    Bro harryyew, i suspect it's mainly the males who have dull looking faces and heads :P
    ...from literatures, i tink it is a natural... unless i use SKII ?!
  • harryyewharryyew May 2012
    Posts: 396
    Bro wongyeng

    hmm....I have further questions and please share with me.......

    1) are the male koi generally younger than the female?

    2) do your male koi show a stronger colour than the female?

    Cheers
  • wongyengwongyeng May 2012
    Posts: 238
    1) no males are 2-3 yrs
    2) yes, males show stronger colors
  • harryyewharryyew May 2012
    Posts: 396
    Good day brothers and sisters

    Bro wongyeng......conclusion.....it is "natural" because it is male.

    Can we all agree to this or there is an explanation to the likely cause(s) for it as I am sure bro wongyeng would appreciate to know....?

    Cheers

  • harryyewharryyew May 2012
    Posts: 396
    Bro wongyeng

    before our brothers and sisters replies/comments further.....can you confirm.... all females are "snowwhite" in skin texture or they also have also a slight tinge of yellow but of less promien on a casual visual inspectiont?

    Cheers
  • tomctomc July 2012
    Posts: 7
    Bro James

    I see you asked about if the koi were eating the algae in the pond when commenting on the yellow heads. Did you have a theory? Very interested.
  • JamesJames July 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    Bro Tom? Anyways, kois having yellow head is not always permanent. As they grow some of their quality and appearance will improve or degrade. Kois have their good and bad days too. As long as quality is present, they will develop to be better. If koi is chomping up algae there is a tendency that the shiroji will b affected. But this is not permanent so I wouldn't worry.
  • tomctomc July 2012
    Posts: 7
    Bro James
    Yes, it's Bro Tom, rather than TomC
    It was interesting as I read elsewhere that the algae type that you grow can affect the shiroji but then that it is possible to change the environment to grow different algae types.
  • jamiltjamilt August 2012
    Posts: 287
    Hi bros and sis,

    my kohaku and sanke shiroji are yellowish. their beni not deep in color either.

    i am changing their diet. (used to feed them hikari hi growth + primo plus all day + no color food).

    i am feeding 100% FD Primo Plus for Breakfast.

    A mix of Kenkokanri Hi Silk 28.5%, Sakai Wheatgerm 28.5%, Hikari Super White 28.5%, and Hikari Deep Red 14.5% for Lunch and Dinner.

    water parameter ok, high temp though 30.8C, am installing chiller soon.

    Please comment and advice bros and sis.
    Post edited by jamilt at 2013-06-01 02:52:47 pm
  • KChongKChong August 2012
    Posts: 348
    Hi Guys,

    I am just wondering is there really a Yellow Head Virus that can infect Koi? :/
    As I am aware, there is Yellow Head Syndrome that happen in shrimp/prawn only and also believed Remedor is for shrimp use. Maybe can request Syndel to clarify.....

    If there is really YHV that affect koi, will recommend university to do some reaseach in this as it is very new to me, at least:-D
  • grinkz01grinkz01 August 2012
    Posts: 530
    less feeding and reduced temperature often time can help increase shiroji...
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    Salam Bro Jamil, in my opinion hikari white is a premium food that should be fed exclusively, with the sole purpose of clearing the shiroji, further the price is a bit prohibitive. but then again, so is the rest of the food you are feeding...

    I tried using sakai color food 2 months ago as a show prep and am pleased with the result. I only feed twice a day and the evening feed is exclusive color food, with morning feed of kenkokanri.

    I started exclusive hikari white 2 weeks ago and am also pleased with the results. but not all the kois are positively improving... Some need more than food.

    If you are feeding to many combination, you may not know what works and what dont. just my opinion. I think you may want to try improving the yellowish first by feeding only hikari white and/or khi silk. Once the shiroji improves, to add color food upto 50 pct and stop if they turn yellowish again. Color food are potent stuff and some kois just dont react well... I once fed 100 pct color food and one of the showa turned very yellow and totally lost the shine and luster. i think too taxing to the liver and kidney.

    My pond comprises of mixed sizes and may not work with your collection of mature large kois...

    Good luck.
    Post edited by Anuar at 2012-09-01 09:23:53 am
  • jamiltjamilt September 2012
    Posts: 287
    Bro anwar, thanks for the advice, will finish up the current mix (in a week) and will try to feed super white exclusively. Will update the result in a few weeks.
  • J73J73 September 2012
    Posts: 56
    Ive surveyed quite a few Local aquarium shop but i never came across this HIKARI SUPER WHITE pellets. Can anyone share info on where to get it? And roughly how much does it cost? My Shiro's head also yellowish. Thanks alot
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Jonas,
    Aquarium shops do not sell these. Why don't you try Yamakoshi Tropicana.......
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Aisehman... Too late already to use to prep the Hoshikin... Hehe.... :-D
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Wah Bro pandai,
    Want to sapu the GC title already yaaaa!!! The best of luck my friend....... :-D
    If there is a WILL, there is always a WAY........
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Takdalah bro... Nowhere near lah with the piece that I have. Anyway just got exicted by the very thought of entering a competition. Never even cross my mind when I bought my first koi a few years ago when starting this hobby... But more importantly, the camaraderie and spirit of brotherhood (and sisters too!) among the koikichis that makes this a wonderful hobby... :-D
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Well said Bro pandai............ :)
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro j73 hikari white tiger purewhite, in indonesia price is around idr 900K or RM300 every 5kg.
  • MikeMike September 2012
    Posts: 346
    Rm300 per 5kg :-((
  • J73J73 September 2012
    Posts: 56
    Is yamakoshi nearby atarikoi? I dont know where is yamakoshi. Thx bro shukri
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar September 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Bro J73,
    Yes, Yamakoshi Tropicana is near Atarikoi tropicana
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    Not sure if Yamakoshi Tropicana carry hikari pure white, better call them first. I got mine from Gosanke Taman Desa - also not sure whether they still have stock.
  • J73J73 September 2012
    Posts: 56
    Guys, just another noob question...would the hikari pure white pellets effect the colours of the kois? I mean from red become orange??? Or the current orange colour become not so orangy??? Thx
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro Anuar,

    What are the additional ingredients in Hikari Super White compared to usual Saki etc ? Not much info on web or Hikari site la. Protein level ?

    thanks
    ts
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    this i would like to understand also though i am sure that beni is affected by red pigment only..
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    Bro Lau, sorry I dont know. This is the first time I am trying, and I bought loose so there is no info available. Whether it works, I only started slightly more than a week ago and have not seen any difference, further I also just started running a chiller a couple of days ago - so if the shiroji improves it could also be due to cooler water temp. But those with yellow head remains yellowish with no sign of improving yet.

    If not mistaken, based on leaflet I took during Matrade Show, the food should be used exclusively for 2 months to see result.

    There is also another brand that claims to be able to improve shiroji - it is a wheatgerm based, forgotten the name but available at Aka Koi.

    Regards.
  • KaajKaaj September 2012
    Posts: 376
    I concur with Anuar that sakai singking is possibly the best color food available. I was put onto it by big bro Daniel, and have not looked back. There is very little chance of shiroji turning yellow even with heavy feeding.
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro Anuar, I believe you're refering to Nobori?
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    Bro Pandai, yes nobori, witb their so called super wheatgerm... Anybody tried for long term? Priced athalf of hikari white.
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    I did, but not exclusively, so couldn't really tell the effect.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro pandai,

    Can you tell us the additional ingredients and protein level of Hikari Super white then ?

    ts
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro lauts,

    Did you mean Nobori? It's the one I was refering to. I have never used Hikari Super White.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • BthineshkumarBthineshkumar September 2012
    Posts: 1,763
    Hi guys,

    Something I found in the net:
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/9104/Hikari White.jpg
    www.koianswers.com/discussion/download/9105/Hikari White 2.jpg
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Nobori's ingredients are: fish meal, wheat flour, wheatgerm, defatted soybean, corn, beer yeast, sodium phosphate, astaxanthin, marigold extract, papaya extract, hyaluronic acid, heat-resistant vitamin c, vitamins and minerals.
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • koi888koi888 September 2012
    Posts: 131
    Hi All Bro
    Heard from some master by feeding honey mix with wheatgem can help to improve the shiroji whiter.
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Thanks for sharing bro pandai, TK and koi888.

    Some ingredients not in other meal are like sesame seeds , pickled apricot extract, kale meal in Hikari , papaya and marigold extractin Nobori. Looks like a lot of natural ingredients mixed together.
    I recall some years back in a koi show , vege ' cabbage' wong nga pak was mentioned too when asked why his champion kois have super white shiroji.
    Other than being vege and natural in nature not sure what is the active ingredients :/ anti oxidents maybe ??

    ts
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Lauts,

    Cabbage is very high in vitamin K and vitamin C and high in antioxidants. It is a good source of Vitamin A(betacarotine) That is good for the beni.
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro HDCu,

    What do you see in the ingredients that contributes to shiroji in Hikari and Nobori ? Antioxidants seems to be the rage nowadays for human but wonder if it works for kois too?

    ts
  • pandaipandai September 2012
    Posts: 1,083
    Bro lauts,

    Nobori pack says, "This food contains heat-resistant vitamin C, which serves to protect white coloration and to promote the generation of a beautiful shape and a nice luster in koi".

    ...Oh my English! :-D
    Get Kenkona Koi and Kenkona Bio at special price online at http://kenkonakoi.blogspot.com/
  • JamesJames September 2012
    Posts: 1,964
    White Tiger, which is what this is called is not to be fed too much. It has an effect of submerging sumi and also wiping out beni, depending on koi. Bad experience just this week.
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    Bro Kaaj, time to promote SK2 :-))
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bro James,

    Care to share more details on your conclusion and any picts would be helpful? Possibly you mean it just whiten everything including sumi and beni like correction fluid on paper ?

    ts
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Lauts,

    If you look at the ingredients of both brands you can notice the following:

    1. both have stabilized vitamin C or ascorbyl-2-phosphate. Normally ascorbic acid shelf life is within 6 months. The stabilized vitamin C degrades longer, usually in a year. Vitamin C clears up any yellowing on the skin.
    2. both have soybean. Japanese researchers have found out that, soybean contains linoleic acid, which can effectively prevent the synthesis of melanin in skin cells. The effect is skin whitening. Aside from that soybean reduces blood fat making the koi more healthy in the long term.
    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-09-05 06:32:33 pm
  • KaajKaaj September 2012
    Posts: 376
    Bro Anuar....I have switched to skin whitening pills these days. Easier. No need to take out the koi from the pond and apply the lotion onto their skin. Then i follow up with 1L Vodka directly into the pond, and 1L vodka for me :)
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    :-)) :-)) :-))
  • pslongpslong September 2012
    Posts: 288
    Hahahahaha vodka and whitening pills!
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Thanks bro HDCu for enlightening info.

    I have been adding effervescent Vit C into their diet and quite happy with shiroji on most of my kois , there are exception in a few that yellows very fast when colour feed. I suppose these are just weaker specimens.
    Soybean and linoleic acid , any suggestion on how to deliver them to the kois ? Feed them raw soy beans ? Add soy powder /milk to feed ?
    The prices of Hikari Super White is just crazy unaffordable, might as well feed them canned abalone :-))

    ts
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro Lauts,

    After researching, there are many oils with linoleic acid such as wheat germ oil, sunflower oil, etc. The problem is I just dont know how many will make an effect or cause harm to the melamin of the koi. Nobody wants to have our precious kois turn into shiro muji.

    Actually, whitening the skin of the koi is not much of the problem since there are many ways to do it, the more harder thing is how to intensify the sumi and how to make the skin become more shiny.
  • ShukriShukri September 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Bro Kaaj,
    You must be drunk when you reply the post.......... :-)) :-D
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • jamiltjamilt September 2012
    Posts: 287
    Bro @Anuar I have started feeding pure white exclusively as per adviced. Hopefully can se positive result. However the karashigoi seems to eat most every time
    Post edited by jamilt at 2012-09-08 07:23:35 pm
  • AnuarAnuar September 2012
    Posts: 688
    Good luck Bro Jamil, i am seeing some result but not to all the kois. However those with yellowish head remains yellow for now, based on 2 weeks plus of feeding pure white. i guess the head would be the hardest part to tackle.
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    bro hdcu/lauts...care to share vit c brand and dosage? i used to fed 250gr per day to my kois (8 pcs size 40 - 73cm)
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro grinkz01,

    I use berocca. 1 tablet a day for 200 to 250 grams of koi food.
  • MikeMike September 2012
    Posts: 346
    HDCu,

    How do you add the effervescent to the pallet, crush the tablet - add water - soak it to the pallet and air dry before feeding ?
  • grinkz01grinkz01 September 2012
    Posts: 530
    noted with thanks ro hdcu....will try it. berocca mix with 200mL water + spray it to koi pellet right?
  • cubercuber September 2012
    Posts: 96
    Would like to know more on bro James experience with the purewhite, as I'm feeding purewhite for the past few weeks, but reading to what bro James has written, it's kinda worrying for me.
  • HDCuHDCu September 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    I just use around 100 ml water to dissolve it and then mix the liquid and the dry pellet with a spoon. Koi foods are not created equal as such try half a tablet also to see a difference. I consume the food within a day. It is sealed in a small container.
  • harry_luhurharry_luhur September 2012
    Posts: 808
    Bro Jeery,

    Feeding any color food, grow food including whitening food may depend on fish gen and water. Result may vary from pond to pond.
    Regards,

    Harry Luhur
  • cubercuber September 2012
    Posts: 96
    Bro Harry,

    I know that with color food and growth food, but I never knew that purewhite could affect the beni/sumi on the fishes, I thought it will work something like wheatgerm but better, to improve the shiroji of the fishes, so I got another lesson from this thread then.
  • lautslauts September 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Bros,

    For Vit C , similar in method to Bro HDCu, i use only 2 times a week, abt 300- 400g feed. Just add pellet to absorb all the vitC in one cup water , leave to dry abt 10 min. Leftover in fridge for next feed. You want minimal handling of feed and use as fast as possible.

    ts



  • KahhoeKahhoe September 2012
    Posts: 219
    Will there be whitter shiroji if feeding hikari super pure white in two weeks time ?? ... Coz i just started to switch to this as i planned to send for the coming show ... Or any other mathod to improve its shoroji ... Thanks
    Rearing Nishikigoi are very interesting ... Just observe their development ... Everybody loves them =)
  • KahhoeKahhoe September 2012
    Posts: 219
    * method
    Rearing Nishikigoi are very interesting ... Just observe their development ... Everybody loves them =)
  • ZackZack October 2012
    Posts: 232
    I guess I need to start this thread again on shiroji to be whiter from Saki-Hikari Supet White.

    Initially when I bought my koi, my sanke sumi wasn't develop well. After a few months on colour enhancer, all my sanke sumi grows & become bigger dark black patch. Recently my pond was hit by bad bacteria, medication & so on cause the shiroji to turn yellowish brown especially my kohaku & sanke. Now they have recovered but the shiroji are still yellowish brown after a month. I decided to give exclusive feeding on Saki-Hikari Super White without any other food & can see the worst hit sanke & kohaku shiroji is improving & getting whiter but today I notice that my sanke sumi black patch like dark coloured shirt being attacked by chlorine whereby the sumi no longer uniform black & like having a few holes tge size of the affected koi scale.. Does anyone experience the same too?
    My kois are my lover
  • jamiltjamilt October 2012
    Posts: 287
    My experience with pure white has been positive. After one month of feeding pure white exclusively, the shiroji on my koi has improved tremendously. it is noticeable. it did not give negative outcome on the sumi or beni of the kois. however most of my fishes are gosankes. no shiros. (only recently). It also does not lighten the yellow/orange tone of my two karashigois. Due to current bacteria & parasite attack in my pond, i will stop feeding pure white and change to wheatgerms when feeding can resume in my pond. Kind of disappointing coz I was hoping to experiment feeding pure white exclusively for a few more weeks and see what happens.
    Post edited by jamilt at 2012-10-24 11:06:45 pm

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