What disease is this?
  • khongkhong March 2012
    Posts: 144
    Hi All,

    Appreciate you could tell me what is this disease encountered at the tail of my koi? Normally what type of medication should be used for this disease?

    I used my nail to scratch the pink color type of stuff from the tail, then I keep the koi in a container, with approximately 60 liter of water, with medication and with air stone. Unfortunately, the koi passed away after 45 minutes in the container. I suspect it was due to over dossage. Bad experience for me. Actually this is the first time I bowled my koi out from the pond.

    The kohaku was bought in Aug '11 at about 15cm and it was measured 40cm yesterday.

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  • khongkhong March 2012
    Posts: 144
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  • ShukriShukri March 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Looks like a bacteria infection to me.....looked like ulcers at the tail.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • Kelvin86Kelvin86 March 2012
    Posts: 301
    40cm in a 60 liter container ain't a bit too packed? Maybe the koi is too stress with such constrain space that causes death. Looks like ulcer to me too. Apply liquid PP and some salt on the wounded area with good water quality should not be a big problem at all.
    - Aquatic Kingdom -
  • smokersmoker March 2012
    Posts: 715
    I also think it's ulcer bro.
    Usually if i see a fish infected by bacteria, i will quarantine the fish, put anti ulcer or salt 0.7% and heater.
  • HDCuHDCu March 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    Bro kong,

    Sorry for your loss.

    I recently saw toshio Sakai son bowled a similar case like yours . I asked what it was? He just said "pimple on tail." haha. " Wearing a Surgical glove he squeezed out the puss out and then applied iodine on the tail and spray Japanese antibiotic and threw the fish back to the pond.

    Later on he bowled from dealer pond another one but seemed similar redness and "pimple" but it had more on the fin and tail. He said this time it was a disease that they are familiar in Japan but seldom exhibit in warmer waters. He was surprise to see it exhibit in warmer waters. Fish was knocked out, scraped out the infected part, applied antibacterial med on the infected parts, injected the fish with antibiotic, then performed fish CPR on the koi. All in less than 10 mins. Threw back the fish in the pond when the fish was revived and said it will recover in a week or two. Hehe.

    Post edited by HDCu at 2012-03-26 07:33:01 am
  • khongkhong March 2012
    Posts: 144
    Thanks all for the advice.

    As I didn't have a QT, I thought it should be fine for me just to keep the fish in the big vase for a short period of time. It is a learning for me.

    Fortunately, the disease only infected 1 koi. By the way, How to do CPR for fish?
    Post edited by khong at 2012-03-26 03:54:14 pm
  • ikankoikauikankoikau March 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Khong,
    Sorry to hear about your lost. The inflamed fin could have caused by parasite or bacteria attack. Bacteria Columnaris is normally the culprit for fin's disease. Scraph or scratch with your nail is a good thing to do. Then you can proceed with topical application and bath treatment.

    Too bad the koi didn't make it. Otherwise I would pass you Kenkona Koi for you to try. If it successfully has treated ulceration, it should be able to deal with this problem.

    If you don't mind, what medication did you use to short bath this koi? But certainly this disease alone will not kill the koi. It could be like what you have mentioned, overdosing. Anyway I hope you can fine good replacement for this koi. :-(
  • khongkhong March 2012
    Posts: 144
    Hi Captain,

    Actually I used Kenkona. A week ago I got a bottle from the koi show and I applied to my pond. If you can still remember, I actually spoke to you and asked for your opinion about the "pimple" grow at the tail of the koi.

    Since the situation of the koi seems didn't improve much and that's why I decided to bowl the koi out from the pond and try to give a treatment to the koi. I know that's lots to learn. At least next time I wouldn't simply bowl the fish out from pond :-)

    Anyway, I applied Kenkona to my pond for the second time on last Saturday. The other 9 koi are all ok.
  • HDCuHDCu March 2012
    Posts: 1,117
    To perform CPR on the koi, invert the koi showing its gills. Using both hands open and close the gill in a rhythmic way like a you see a koi breathe underwater. After a while, the koi will breathe on its own and you can put her back in the bowl.

    Personally I have not done it yet but it may come in handy one day.
  • lautslauts March 2012
    Posts: 1,248
    Hi Khong,

    Need to get that QT blue tank. Those 3ft by 2ft ( or better 4ft by 2ft) blue PVC square containers sold in aquariums would suffice. Esp pls QT the new arrivals. On the tail bit i would have scrape them , cut off the tail rot bit towards the end and apply PP on it. Since no QT, the best place is goes back to pond. Likely some growth and started to rot towards the tail tip.

    ts
  • ShukriShukri March 2012
    Posts: 4,881
    Hi Khong,
    Sometimes in an infection, the primary infection could be caused by parasites, and when the fishes immuned system is weakened, the bacteria will take advantage of the situation and a secondary infection occurs. So in such situations, which one do we treat first? I come from the school of thought that I will treat the one that kills, which is the bacteria infection, and then later treats the parasite infection.

    In your case, since it is the bacteria infection that we are dealing with here, the bacteria is surely swimming in your pond, on the fishes body and there is a possibility that the bacteria has entered the fishes i.e. in the infected kois already. If the koi immunity is strong, the bacteria will be fought naturally, else you have to use antobiotics either through food or by way of antibiotics injection. For ulcers and all, a topical application is neccessary i.e. PP, OTC paste, antibiotics spray, Malachite green paste etc.......

    There is still another thing that you have to also eradicate, which is the free swimming bacteria in the water. If time permits, please clean your filter chambers materials, then put medications like Kenkona, Perform C, OTC/TC combination (if the infections are severe) etc.
    And with God's willing, your fishes will be OK.
    In Koianswers Forum, no one individual is above the rest. This is the Forum for the Koi Community.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau March 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Bro Khong,

    Sorry bro, now I remember you. I met so many people during the show and got mixed up.

    You have done a correct procedure. How much did you add in for 60L of water? I myself have carried out 8 batches of kois including new and after show. All together, it's more than 20 kois. In fact for tossai, I only use 50ml of water for short batch with an airstone. I only add 1.25ml of Kenkona Koi using a shringe. In your case, you only need 1.5ml of Kenkona Koi.

    It's may be little but trust the dosage. I did received calls from hobbyist with regard to the dosage which seems to be too little but the recommended dosage has been tested and used for almost 2 years without a single casualty. I am very sorry for your lost bro. I'm glad other kois were fine and not infected.
  • ikankoikauikankoikau March 2012
    Posts: 1,053
    Spoke to bro Khong thru PM this evening. He did mentioned how much it was overdosed. Feel sorry for what had happened. I would like to highlight to hobbyist who have used or going to use Kenkona Koi to trust the recommended dosage. I know it is very little compare to using S1 or other medication but the effectiveness has been accounted for.

    I really appreciate all your feedback. Thank you.

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