From: Nick 9/09/00
Subject: Re: need a betta behavior expert... Ummm....... you have 2 males and a female...... Not 3 females.... all these fish need to be in seperate tanks if you are using bowls... The 2 'pretty ones (red and purple) are the males.. They will fight until death..... The scrawny one is probably yellowish in colour with a shorter tale? no? That is a female.. If you put her in a tank with a male that is small, he will breed with her until she dies, if it's larger, you might be ok.... But the red and blue one need to be seperated. Of course I see a n/m (nevermind) no doubt, which means one of them already killed the other off no doubt. and that this message is too late.
From: Carissa 9/10/00
Subject: they're all females I have a male also. He is seperate. The scrawny looking one died, I think she just got too bullied by the other one and/or she was sick to start with. The remaining two females are seperate. The red and purples ones are by no means pretty compared to male bettas.
From: Kick 9/08/00
Subject: Re: need a betta behavior expert... Sometimes, no, the females are as bad as the males. I have 4 female all from the same spawn. I bred one. When I went to put her back into the tank with the other three after spawning, she became very dominant and fussed and nipped with the other three. I have her in a tank all by herself. If you are seeing fighting among the females, you will need to remove the one causing the problems, and she probably will not ever get along with them again. It is just something in nature that happens. The one has a mean streak and even though they were all together at one time, once removed and readmitted to the tank, or placed with another "new fish" she has become aggressive. My advise is to probably put her in her own bowl and sit her with your males. She probably will never get along with others from this point on. And yes, if the scrawny one and purple one were together, that could be why she is so skinny. They sometimes are feistier than the males. That is why some females will "kill" the male when they are put together to spawn. Kick
From: Kick 9/08/00
Subject: Can't agree with Fish Lady on all Counts with Females Carissa, you are more than welcome. The Fish Lady said not to keep "any" females together. I don't necessarily agree with her on this one. I have 3 of my females together, and they do wonderfully. In fact when they rest, they usually huddle together on the plant leaf or sitting quietly on the bottom. They look like a group of children napping all in a row. But "sometimes" female bettas will get unhappy being with the others and let everyone know it. Just wanted to add more "exceptions to the rules". Kick
From: THe Fish Lady 9/08/00
Subject: Re: need a betta behavior expert... I agree with Kick, I would put them apart. I have 2 females and I never put mine together. A good rule of thumb is to keep them apart all the time, even if the pet store had them together. These fish are very agressive to eachother the females will fight, maybe not to the death but they do fight. The older the fish get the more agressive they get to eachother, as I have experenced, may not be for all.The fish Lady
From: Terry 9/08/00
Subject: Need an Opinion on a problem I have a 10 gal tank divided down the middle, with 3 female platies living on one side (this side has a 6 inch bubble wall). The other side has a whisper jr filter with 1 6 week old platy living there temporarily. My Betta is supposed to move into the filter side when the baby platy is old enough to move out and I plan on running the filter on low to keep the water calmer for the Betta. The problem: I can't in all good conscience keep 4 platies (adding the baby to the 3 already there) in half of a 10 gal tank. I though of buying a 5 gal for the Betta and undividing the 10 gal for the mollies, but I can't afford another small tank ( have a 5 gal with another Betta already), husband is objecting to another small tank, and I really would like to save my money to get a 29 gal next year (working on husband for that). I thought about moving the divider in the 10 gal so the platies have more room than the Betta, but then I wouldn't be able to keep either the filter or the bubble wall in his small side, because there wouldn't be enough calm area for him which means the platies would get both filter and bubbler (could be a bit turbulent). I have to move the Betta someplace very soon since he is only in a temporary 1 gal unheated plastic container bought only to quarantine him before adding him to the 10 gal (until baby platie appearred and blew away my plan), and it is starting to get cold in our house and subsequently in his container. My 10 gal and the 5 gal with the other Betta have heaters. Should I try to rearrange my 10 gal to accommodate all 5 fish, or is this just not going to work? I want to make sure before I start tearing up the tank, since it will mean major remodling and stirring things up. Thanks for all opinions and for plowing through the long read!Terry
From: Carissa 9/08/00
Subject: Re: Need an Opinion on a problem Would it be possible to put a divider in the 5 gal and have the two bettas in there?
From: Terry 9/08/00
Subject: Re: Need an Opinion on a problem I had originally tried putting the Betta who is in the 5 gal into the 10 gal Orbit) with another Betta which I had at the time. Orbit almost flared himself into a heart attack at everything in the tank and when he discovered another Betta flaring at him on the other side of the divider, things got worse. He ended up pretty stressed out and I had to remove him from the tank. Hence his own 5 gal. I haven't been able to find a tank divider that is not transparent, but if I found one, I might be able to try putting Sammy-Zorro (my other Betta) in with him, but I wouldn't try it if they were going to be able to see each other. Orbit's a bit high strung and seems to stress easily. At least Sammy-Zorro is alot calmer!
From: Carissa 9/08/00
Subject: Re: Need an Opinion on a problem There isn't usually a problem with keeping a betta in a 1 gal. bowl without a heater, as long as you do regular (2-3x a week) water changes and put him in a warmer area of the house (i.e. not by a window). If you can spend a few bucks you might want to get him a 2 gal. bowl, then you don't have to do as many water changes. One thing I did for my bettas to keep them a little warmer was to put a bit of styrofoam underneath the bowl for insulation, and then I put a black light bulb over him (they are basically the same kind as they use in reptile cages to provide heat) and I keep it on all the time. I was using a regular light bulb, but I was shutting it off at night so he wasn't in bright light all the time, and that kind of made the temperature fluctuate by about 5 degrees which I didn't like. But since the black light gave off heat but not a lot of light I thought it would be a better choice. It keeps the water a few degrees above room temperature. But you have to watch the thermometer for a few days to make sure it doesn't get it too hot. But as far as keeping him without a heater in a smaller bowl, he'll be alright as long as the place he's at is at least 70 degrees or so and you're regular with his water changes.I have seen dividers that were made out of opaque white plastic with little holes in them, maybe you could find that kind somewhere if you look around for the 5 gal.Anyway, hope this helps out a bit.
From: Terry 9/08/00
Subject: Hmmm - How to disinfect I have a 2 gal glass bowl where I was originally keeping my 1st Betta, Orbit, until I tried moving him into the 10 gal. Orbit had and still has fin rot that does not respond to medication (tried several, not all at once). I could temporararily put my poor homeless Betta in the 2 gal bowl if I could be sure the bowl is free of disease. I hesitate to use Chlorox on the bowl, but is there anything I could clean this bowl with that will absolutely kill any bacteria or fungus that might be lurking, and yet be safe for a new occupant? I still want to get him into a heated tank eventually, but I did see a 9 watt heater in the lfs that I might be able to use with the bowl since some nights the room temp dips below 70. If I can disinfect that bowl, this might work. At least he'll have a little more room. Thanks!
From: kitty fish 9/08/00
Subject: Re: Hmmm - How to disinfect Why not put the baby platy in the 2 gallon bowl with the nine-watt heater after disinfecting it with bleach? Using chlorox is fine, don't use the lemon stuff though. After you're done rinsing in with bleacy water (which will most certainly kill all bacteria) fill the bowl full of water and a great concentration of dechlorinator; let it sit for 24 hours or so to let the gasses dissipate. When the baby is in the 2 gallon bowl, you can move your divider over to give the platies more room, perhaps buy an airstone or diffuser for the betta's side, and maybe pinch off the airline so that it't not so turbulent for the betta. You could also put a divider into the 5 gallon betta tank and plant along it heavily so the bettas have a hard time seeing each other and just about no room to flare. :P Anywho, hope you figure it out!kitty fish
From: corrado 9/09/00
Subject: Re: Hmmm - How to disinfect Hi me i used vinegar put a little bit of vinegar in a bucket add water and clean your bowl with a new rag.
From: Kick 9/08/00
Subject: Don't mean to butt in here, but let me take a shot at this. First let me make sure I have this right. You have 2 tanks..a l0 gallon and a 5 gallon. And a total of 2 bettas and 4 platies (l baby) and "no" mollies. Am I correct? And you want everyone in heated, roomy, tanks. The solution is very simple and I can even make you space for another betta if you want one.They do make dividers that are white and not clear. (I have 2 of them in my l0 gallon, divided betta tank....3 bettas housed here.) I would remove the small bubble curtain and the whisper filter and get an underground filter (not expensive) for the l0 gallon. By doing this if you only want one divider (2 bettas), you will not be placing either fish No. l: on the side with the filter where his fins will probably get caught in the intake tube No. 2: with the uplift tubes at either end of the tank, they will both receive filtration, And No. 3: the bubble curtain will not be necessary as bubbles will come from the UGF. You can divide the tank either once for 2 bettas or twice for 3 bettas. The one in the middle will receive filtration as the holes in the divider do allow for circulation of the water. Then you would have the 5 gallon for the platys and you could use a "clear" divider in it if need be for the baby on the one side at present. Everybody has a place to call their own, a l0 gallon divided is ample room for 2 or even 3 bettas and the 5 is sufficient for the 4 platys. If you cannot find the "white" dividers in the LPS, tell them what you need and they surely can order them for you. I found mine in a small family owned fish store and it was a popular company that made them. You might check out www.thatpetplace.com or www.petwhse.com as they may carry them too, and I probably can be truthful in telling you they will be cheaper than buying at the LPS. Good luck on whatever you decide. Kick
From: Terry 9/09/00
Subject: Thank you everyone, for the suggestions-you've given me ideas! I think I can work this out now without buying another small tank. I cleaned out my 2 gal bowl with Clorox and now I'm letting it sit with dechlorinator so I can move Sammy-Zorro up from his 1 gal at least until I can get my two tanks rearranged. Kick, you got it right - I have a 10 and a 5 gal,2 bettas and 3 1/2 platies. I kind of like the idea of putting the platies in the 5 gal and having the bettas in the 10 gal. None of my local sotes have the white tank dividers but I am going to see if one of them will order one for me. The only hitch is that the betta who is now in the 5 gal has had fin rot for over two months now which all my best efforts and medications cannot seem to cure. His fins will start to heal, and then rot again after a period of 4 or 5 days. It's been a continuous cycle regardless of which medication I used (or didn't use). Question: Fin rot is contagious, right? I don't waant to put him with any other fish if it is going to spread. I keep hoping that it will go away, but no luck. And he just blew his biggest bubblenest, yet. The little guy seems really proud of it,too!
From: Cheryl 9/10/00
Subject: Re: Thank you everyone, for the suggestions-you've given me ideas! Dear Terry -- could you refresh my memory as to what you're using to condition the water for Orbit? Including declorinator brand and what, if anything, you're adding to adjust pH? I have a "hunch" about his continued fin rot, which closely resembles the problems a friend recently had with his Betta Buddy...would you post back, please? Thanks -- Cheryl.
From: Terry 9/11/00
Subject: Cheryl - here's the info Hi Cheryl, Are you the same Cheryl I was discussing putting bettas in divided tanks with a while back? My black betta hasn't gone into the 10 gal since the platy fry took up residence there, but Orbit (the fin rot guy who freaked out when I tried putting him in the 10 gal previously) has been in his 5 gal since July 30. He took to it really well and seems alot calmer now that I'm no longer netting him out of his bowl constantly to change the water. But his fin rot just won't be cured. It started rotting back when he was in his 2 gal bowl. At the time I was using Stress Coat and Start Right (made by Jungle) to condition his water along with aquarium salt. a couple weeks before he went into his 5 gal, I stopped using both of those conditioners and started using Amquel and Novaqua along with aquarium salt at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gal. I've never used anything to adjust my pH. Right now it's 6.8 in the 5 gal and it comes out of the tap at 7.0. The tank has not cycled yet - ammonia, nitrites and nitrates are all zero. The water has been quite cloudy just about from the start - much cloudier than my 10 gal was before it cleared and for a longer time. I added some Stress Zyme two days ago hoping it would help the cycle along but I don't think it did anything except make the water cloudier and I'm not going to add more. In fact I did a small water change last night which got the water just slightly clearer. Was your friend able to cure his betta and what did he use? Did you find out what the cause was? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Seeing the poor guy disintegrate before my eyes hasn't been easy. Every time I start a new medicine, I'm so hopeful when I see slight improvements, but then his fins start to rot again. Thanks!Terry
From: Cheryl 9/12/00
Subject: Re: Cheryl - here's the info Hi, Terry, yes, I'm the Cheryl with the Bettas who "hate" aquariums. They are living blissfully in 2 gallon bowls, except for Ticonderoga, my husband's yellow office buddy, who was purchased specifically for the 3 Gallon Eclipse after each of my home boys rejected it. Guess living in quiet waters spoiled them on filter sounds? Ah, well, whatever makes them happy!I asked about pH adjusters because my friend Dan had a Betta going through the same syndrome as Orbit -- shred, get better, then shred. He also switched to Amquel and NovaAqua and Aquarium salt to condition, did 3-4 changes weekly, and stopped using a net. The fins kept going back and forth between better and bad. We were staring at poor Speck one day, trying to figure out what the pickle was up and discussing possibilites, when Dan said he thought his high 7.8 was contributing, even though he always added pH Down...something he never mentioned before. Maybe...? We did a water change, softening the pH with a percentage of distilled, and Dan kept doing daily changes until Speck was acclimated to his normal tap range. We also added Kordon's PolyAqua*, as Speck was very tattered. Since then he's stablized and his fins are filling in, so our fingers are crossed for a full recovery. However, as you're not adding adjusters, the scenario doesn't fit Orbit. Sorry, I wasn't sure what you were doing, and thought maybe the story might help...*BTW, this product was suggested by Kordon, and recommended by our wonderful local LPS, to assist with damaged fins. (It's apparently a "super" version of NovaAqua; the LPS donated a couple of squirts. They don't sell it normally, but special ordered two bottles for us.) Because Dan stopped putting acid in the water at the same time, I'm not absolutely certain of the real effect. If someone else has experience with it? Perhaps CT?
From: ~deb 9/11/00
Subject: Fin Rot? Terry are you sure it's fin rot and not an injury from perhaps a plastic plant or the filter intake?~deb : )
From: Terry 9/11/00
Subject: Re: Fin Rot? Yes, it is definately fin rot. Deb, I can't believe it's gone on for this long, but it is fin rot. Sections of his fins will start fraying, or sometimes it will start with a small hole in the fin that just grows until it reaches the end of the fin. Tips of his fins also ball up sometimes or develop into weird shapes. Long shreds of his fins will also just seem to disolve over a very short period of time, like an hour. The damage never really looks like a tear, but looks eaten away. I made a sleeve for the intake tube of his filter out of a nylon mesh tank vacuum bag so his fins could not get sucked into the tube. I run the filter on low which causes extremely little water movement. His plants are all silk and I close the ones that seemed the softest and had smooth leaves. I carefully inspected the plastic stems of the plants and trimmed off or filed down any excess plastic to make them smooth, too. While I guess it's not impossible that he could injure his fins somehow in the tank, unfortunately, what I'm seeing is fin rot. I just wish I could cure it!Terry
From: Randy 9/12/00
Subject: Fin rot cure. Regarding your fin rot on your betta. Netting fish is very stressful to them. It removes the slime coat which protects them from disease. You should change less water more often so you do not have to net you fish. A cup or two every other day would be sufficient in 2 gallons. It is also possible to change too much water. You would be highly uncomfortable if someone changed all or a mojority of your air at once with different air of a different chemical makeup. Aquarium Pharmacueticals make a good product for fin rot (though this is the only product I would reccomend that is made by them). It is called "Melafix" and is made from Tea Tree oil which is all natural. I used this when my discus became stressed and got a little rot. It was gone in days and the fins regenerated. Try the melafix and change your water changing technique and you are sure to ha ve a fully finned proud betta in no time.
From: Randy 9/12/00
Subject: RE: Possible finrot cure It sounds to me that you might be changing too much of your water. A 10-20% change should be sufficient if done every other day or so. Changing a cup of water every other day (out of two gallons) would be a lot more effective than netting the fish and changing a majority of the water. You are correct that netting the fish does it harm. It removes the fishes slime which coat it and protect it from disease. As for the fin rot. Aquarium Pharmacueticals makes a product called "Melafix". It is made from Tea Tree oil and does wonders for fin rot. I used it on my discus when the got fin rot after being netted and it was gone and the fins regrown in a matter of days. Of course the condition was not chronic as your sounds but it should definitely help. It sounds as if your fish is stressed. I would use the Melafix as directed and change less water more often.