Petfish.net Message Board Archive No. 13 Part 2
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From: Kick 7/15/00
Subject: To Dagmar
I need to apologize real bad because I have been so swamped at home that I have not had a chance to really investigate your problems. But from the post below, it sounds like you are in no man's land. You have a bacterial infection your tank, and it think it has probably progressed so far that nothing can be done for these fish. Am I right when I say that you have a gourami, angel and guppies, and the guppies are the only ones doing okay at this point. This is what I would do. You probably won't like what I am about to say, but things aren't good right now, and you have to do something.
I don't feel the G and A are going to make it so I would scoop them out and either euthanize or if you can't stand to do that, put in a bucket until they die.
If the guppies are looking okay and you think for now they are fine, I would purchase a small tank (can usually get for about $10 American money here in the states)......oh poop. I have to shut computer down immediately, the power is about to go out. We are having some electrical work done. Will finish this later. Sorry. Kick
From: CT 7/18/00
Subject: Re: To Dagmar
Stabilize the environment. You mentioned before that the temp isn't stable, that's why you close up the tank in a cabinet. You should drain the tank and put it in a location that doesn't have heated air blowing directly on it. Use a high quality aquarium heater of the proper size to keep a stable temp.
You've already added anti-biotics, anti-fungus meds and salt. You've got unstable chemical soup. The best cure is prevention. Get back to the basics. Start over!
CT
From: Dagmar 7/18/00
Subject: Re: To Dagmar
Hi CT and Kick,
Sorry, I must have given you the wrong idea re the heating of the 4' tank. The tank is in a cabinet, has a proper aquarium heater which is set to 24-25 deg. We currently have winter here so the heating in the house is on when we are home. The tank half sits over 1 of the vents, so to compensate I leave the cabinet door open to let the excess heat out. The tank maintains heat between 25 -26 deg but generally about 25. Most of the big fish died but after the removal of the dead stinky fish, 6 bucket water change and 25 drops myxazin 2 days in a row and the normal aquarium salt, stress coat etc the tank is now stable. The kribs and the gold gourami are still not well but are moving a lot more and starting to eat again, so maybe they will be ok. The guppies and the kissing gourami are all well and I have at least 20 baby guppies who are doing real well even swimming down to the bottom. I am not sure if some were hiding before or if the female has kept having more but everyday I find more fry.
I appreciate all that you and Kick have told me and will see how it goes. I have never been a quitter, the funny thing is that the eye problems have cleared up since the 2nd day of medication and the large waterchange.
Cheers Dagmar
From: Dagmar 7/16/00
Subject: Re: To Dagmar
Hi Kick,
None of the fish died in big tank died overnight but angel, Goldie, Kribs are still very sick. One guppie also has eye problem. You wouldn't believe my luck. My bristlenose and my Betta in small 32 litre (6.5 gal) were sitting on the heater this morning, Alex the betta is ok but the catfish burnt his mouth and died, unreal. If it wasn't so sad I would laugh, it looked so strange to see them together hanging off this internal heater. I am going to brave this out with big tank and now that water is good, I will put some myxacyn in and see what happens, by the way there are still 10+ babies (guppies). Thanks for all your help sorry about the multiple mails, I realised that I had missed a bit, tried to fix it and made it worse.
Cheers Dagmar
From: Kick 7/16/00
Subject: Re: To Dagmar--back to my unfinished post
I am a bit confused about big tank and others. You will have to explain that to me. Are all your sick fish in one tank? If that is the case, then there is bacteria that probably won't be able to be cured. If the rest of the fish die, and if there is bacteria, they eventually will, I think, because this much illness in one tank has to be spreading from one fish to the other.
About the only sure cure for this tank if all the fish are getting sick is: No. l: Don't add anymore fish. No. 2: There is no since moving the whole tank of fish to a hospital tank. This won't do any good for them or the other fish in the original tank. No. 3: I would tear the whole tank down. Sterilize the tank and everthing but the rocks (throw them away and get new) with Bleach, then rinse everything real well and start all over. At this point, you will probably never get rid of what's going on in there, and even if left "unfished" for a while, the bad bacteria will remain, and the fish won't survive.
One question, what is your heater set at. Are you sure it is not too hot? I can't recollect every hearing of a fish "burning" themselves on a heater. Maybe this is just something new to me.
Sorry again for having to go so quickly on my last post. We are having some wiring done on our house, and it was lights out for about half the day. Fun looking after tanks in that kind of situation, and so glad that I have battery pumps for each of them. Made the whole deal a breeze. Let me know about some of this. Kick
From: Dagmar 7/16/00
Subject: Re: To Dagmar--back to my unfinished post
Hi Kick,
I currently have 2 tanks going, 1 is a 4' (56 gall) with tropical fish and that is the problem one. I put my beautiful big boy angel in the freezer last night, he was real sick, looked alright but couldn't swim. His eyes were ok but he must have had something internal same as the gold gourami and probably the kribs too. The guppies appear ok at this point and there are at least 10 babies all happy swimming on top. The temperature in both my tanks is set at 24-25 deg. I will not be putting any more fish in until I monitor the situation for at least 2 weeks. If all fish die I will tear it down but I think initially, I will continue to do big water changes and see what happens. I also have a kissing gourami in that tank who is eating and swimming fine. The only thing I can think of is that after the flying fox died the other sick fish all came in contact with him. Because he died in the krib cave it stands to reason that a lot of them would have explored that area and the catfish was also in that part of the tank. It now smells much better after 1/2 water change and good gravel clean. I put in 25 drops myxacyn and 1 heaped teasp. normal rock salt last night. Thank you so much for all your assistance and hopefully when I eventually get new fish I will not have reason to need any help.
Hope all your electric wiring went ok. I can imagine what a hassle it must be with fish. By the way, when I cleaned the tank, I also took all the furniture out from that side of the tank and sterilised it before putting it back in.
The small tank which has the fighter and had the catfish also has a heater which hangs on the inside back wall of the tank and I would say that the cat was cleaning the walls, rested on the heater and as it maintains it's temperature, must have come on and he suctioned onto it with his mouth - hence the burnt mouth. Maybe he was there all night, I don't know.
Cheers Dagmar
From: Kick 7/17/00
Subject: Good Luck with it all. Let us hear from you. n/m
n/m
From: Jenna 7/15/00
Subject: Betta in community tank
My daugher got a betta as a party favor. It's currently in the small bowl that she was given. We have a 20 gal tank with platies, swordtails, and cory cats. Can the betta join the gang? I feel so sorry for the betta in the little bowl.
From: The Fish Lady 7/15/00
Subject: I cant believe that someone gave a betta as a favor
Hi, I am a betta breeder and keeper of bettas for about 10 years. I cant believe that the fish was given at the party, they are not for children really. Bettas need special care as Kick posted to you so I will not repete it except that bettas do not eat plants they eat meat, the best thing I can say to feed them if you do not want to get live food is freez dried bloodworms or brine shrimp. I did not read all of Kicks post so I do not know if she covered this or not but it seems to be a question that has come up on this board a few times, if you see a group of bubbles at the top of the bowl it is fine the fish is fine, males blow a bubble nest when they are ready to spawn. IF you want to move your betta to another bowl that is fine a 2 or 3 gallon bowl that you can find at a pet store is fine. You will also need to dechlorinate the water, I use a product called Stress Coat it will do that and it also puts a protective slime on the bettas fins and water, they need that because there fins are very very easly torn. And as the others have said please do not put the betta with the other fish, the other fish will nip at the fins at some point in time if not all the time. IF you need anymore help please let us know, we get betta questions all the time.
From: Jenna 7/16/00
Subject: Re: I cant believe that someone gave a betta as a favor
I was really upset about this too. The kids ranged in age from 2 to 6. Fortunately for us, my 4 1/2 yr old has a respect for living things. As a matter of fact, 1st thing this morning she checked on Teddy (the betta) and told me to change his water.
From: The Fish Lady 7/16/00
Subject: I am glad you are having good luck with your betta n/m
n/m
From: Lori 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Betta in community tank
You need to be very careful if you put the beta in with the other fish. I dont know that much about fish but I do know that you cannot put a beta with any other fish that is aggressive or has a pretty tail. It intimadates the fish. Check with your local pet store or on the web for information on the fish you have in the 20 gallon tank. Good Luck!
From: alana 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Betta in community tank
i've heard of people putting bettas in with other fish, but haven't tried it myself... bettas are fine alone and if the fish in your tank take a liking to a bettas fins! watch out, they'll nip them to shreds!
~alana
From: Kick 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Betta in community tank
Alana is right. Since the betta has long, flowing fins, these are "eye catchers" for other fish, and they tend to chase and nip the betta until his fins almost completely disappear. (And usually they won't do this while you are watching....they sometimes wait until "lights out". Some folks do keep "one" betta (you can'have more than one per tank or they will fight) in a community tank, but I don't advise it and with what you have in the tank right now, I am not so sure the swords would not be after it.
Bettas are labyrinth fish, meaning they get most of their air supply from the surface of the water. They do not "require" aeraton or filtration, and can live quite nicely in the bowl you are speaking of. However, we keepers of breeders feel that a gallon bowl with rocks, a "smoothe" plant for him to play in and rest on is a great way to keep one. Bettas are prone to a disease called velvet, and we use l teasp. of aquarium salt per gallon to keep this disease at bay. It also provides the needed electrolytes that the fish needs. If you need anything further, let us know. Kick
From: B.J. 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Betta in community tank
From personal expirience, I can tell you that there is a 50/50 chance the platies in your tank will nip the bettas fins to shreds. My LPS shop told me they were fully compatible once, but I had to move the betta to a bowl within 5 minutes because of the platy and their fin nipping habit. Your best bet would do as Kick said and get a seperate bowl for him. If you put him in your community tank, just watch him for 15 minutes and see if he hides or the other fish attack him. If so, move him ASAP.
From: Katlyn 7/15/00
Subject: I'm stumped! 2 different tanks, 2 different problems.
I have a female swordtail that has a white patch on her head. She seems fine otherwise. Is this bacterial or parasitic. It's not ich and it's not fuzzy.
Tank 2. (hospital tank) I have another female swordtail that getting thin and scratching on the gravel. Both tanks are fully cycled and not overstocked. No spots on her either. Please help. She's very lethargic. Thanks
From: Kick 7/15/00
Subject: Re: I'm stumped! 2 different tanks, 2 different problems.
Looked in my medical book for you, and from what I read it sounds like the fish with the white patch along with the one that is scratching both are suffering from parasites. I would treat both with a good antiparasitic medication for both internal and external parasites. Good luck. Kick
From: Katlyn 7/15/00
Subject: Kick, I just put some Jungle Parasite Guard in.
Is that the best medication to use? Thank you so much for all of your help. How quickly should it work?
From: CT 7/15/00
Subject: Need more info. What are your water parameters? n/m
n/m
From: Katlyn 7/15/00
Subject: Re: What are your water parameters?
I don't know what you mean. The larger tank is 20 gal ammonia, nitrites and nitrates zero. The smaller tank (hospital) is 5 gal. same readings.
From: Barb 7/16/00
Subject: CT or Kick... Nitrate Question.
Please explain to me how it is that these 2 "fully-cycled" tanks have no measurable nitrates? Shouldn't there always be nitrates in a cycled tank? Thanks.
From: Kick 7/16/00
Subject: Re: CT or Kick... Nitrate Question.
The amount of nitrates will be minute if any. Okay here's the scoop. Nitrates will not hurt the fish unless it is a very large amount. When the waste appears it produces ammonia. This creates bacteria who start feeding on the waste and ammonia. They turn it into nitrite--bad substance for fish. This later turns into nitrate which is not harmful and your bio and mechanical filtration take most of it out of the water. You should have none to very little reading on a cycled tank. You have just had a biology lesson. Kick
From: CT 7/16/00
Subject: Good question Barb!
In theory Barb is correct. There should be some measurable amounts of Nitrates in a cycled tank -- but in practice the answer is going to depend on a few factors:
1) Bio-load: Nitrates may be diluted to the point of not being measurable.
2) Number of plants: These guys use the components of the nitrogen cycle as a food source. They can grab Nitrates from the water.
3) Frequency of water changes: People with soft water may change their water frequently to keep their pH stable. This would also dilute the amount of nitrates.
The presence of Nitrates is certainly the best proof that a tank has cycled -- but then some folks have Nitrates right from the tap. At any rate Barb is right in that zero nitrates should call in to question whether or not a tank has cycled.
Good question!
CT
From: Barb 7/16/00
Subject: Thanks for clarification of biochem !! n/m
From: Katlyn 7/16/00
Subject: Nitrates answer
I had a high level of nitrates 4 months ago. I have a heavily planted tank, the plants are doing better than the fish it seems. Actually, depending on the time of day I do the testing the nitrate reading can vary. It has it's ups and downs, just like fishkeeping! :-)
From: CT 7/16/00
Subject: Re: Nitrates answer
Interesting topic...
I never actually thought to check at different times of the day and how that could affect the readings. What has your experience been in terms of how the readings swing?
CT
From: CT 7/15/00
Subject: Re: What are your water parameters?
Other water parameters would be:
pH
temp
How long have the tanks been up and running?
What's the bioload?
What additives do you put in your water?
Any other info you can think of...
CT
From: Katlyn 7/15/00
Subject: Re: What are your water parameters? Here they are.
Other water parameters would be:
pH 7.6
temp 80
How long have the tanks been up and running? 6 mos
What's the bioload? 3 cory cats,2 platy & 2 swordtails.
What additives do you put in your water? Stress coat and stresszyme when I do water changes
From: CT 7/15/00
Subject: More about your water parameters
Both tanks:
pH 7.6?
temp 80?
Up for 6 mo?
What's the bio-load breakdown? What is in tank #1 & tank #2 specifically?
You don't seem to be doing anything for chlorine or chloramines. Are you on city water, well water or other?
CT
From: Katlyn 7/16/00
Subject: Re: More about your water parameters
I use stress coat and stress zyme with every water change. I should have told you that, but I thought that was a given. Sorry.
From: CT 7/16/00
Subject: I've never used either product -- their use is not a given
Best of luck!
CT
From: Katlyn 7/16/00
Subject: Re: I've never used either product -- their use is not a given
I meant that using a declorinator such as stress coat was a given. I apologize if my response sounded rude.
From: Rob 7/14/00
Subject: Jack Dempsey Info. Needed Please
Does anyone have any information that can be provided regarding Jack Dempsy fishes? A friend of mine bought me one small Jack Dempsey the other day, but I know little about them. One of the few things that I do know about this fish, however, is that they belong to the rowdy "Cichlid" group. Any info. regarding feeding, personality, temperment, or ideal tank mates would be greatly appreciated.
From: Karen S. 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Jack Dempsey Info. Needed Please
Hi,
I had two Jack Dempseys and they were really calm fish. Most of them are not that way, they are usually very territorial and somewhat aggressive. They grow to be 8+ inches. I kept mine in in 78 degree water with a pH of 7.0-7.2. I fed them just about everything, flake, shrimp pellets, sinking pellets, plankton, feeders, live eartheworms, etc. I kept them in with a Red Devil, Green Terror, Parrot, Jaguar Cichlid, etc.
I have a link on my homepage to a site that is dedicated to Jacks, it is called The Ultimate Jack Dempsey Page. The link is towards the bottom of the page, you might find some information on that site. Good luck! ô¿ô
Cichlid Links
http://home.beseen.com/hobbies/myfishforumcichlids
From: Critty 7/14/00
Subject: Snails......
Been awhile since my last post....been busy!....so hi everyone!!!!
As some of you might remember, I was having algae problems in my fancy goldy tank. Well, still there! I have tried almost everything!!!!And I know I can't get any kind of sucker-mouth fish either....not to mention I'm maxed out on tank capacity. SO I am going to try the thing I have been dreading most.......I'm going to try the snail approach. Any suggestions? Plus I *really* *really* don't want to deal with the whole baby icky snails all over! Thanks!
Critty
P.S. I've also checked and I can't seem to find any snails around here....any good internet sites that I could order off of that would be okay????
From: Heather 7/14/00
Subject: Re: Snails......
I remember someone here suggesting ghost shrimp instead of snails. Maybe that'd work better? I'd still like infor on the shrimp if possible. (I only have a one gallow bowl, so I don't know if they'd work or not) Thanks :)
From: alana 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Snails......
i have a larger apple? snail, it's yellow... i've had it for about 2 months now and haven't had any babies. i've been told by my lps that the apple snail don't reproduce so quickly or as often, it's the mystery snails that do.
i don't know of any sites that sell them, but i have some bookmarked that sell fish, i'll check those out when i get home (surfin' at work!!!) and let you know...
~alana
From: Tipperpoo 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Snails......(to Alana)
You posted that your apple snail hasn't reproduced and that mystery snails are the ones that do reproduce a lot. Just to correct your information mystery snails ARE apple snails unless your petstore was mistaken. What you have is a golden mystery snail the same thing as an apple snail. There are actually several types of snails that are classified as apple snails. Apple snails do not reproduce asexually. They have to have an opposite sex partner to reproduce. Many other types of snails (not apple) are what you call hermaphrodites which means they have both sexual organs. Of course I may be wrong but I think this is what I have learned about the apple snails. A good website is http://www.dds.nl/~snc Check it out.
From: Critty 7/15/00
Subject: Re: Snails......
Awesome! Thanks a lot! :)
From: Just Wondering 7/14/00
Subject: What's the difference between flourescent and incadesent lighting? n/m
n/m
From: CT 7/15/00
Subject: Fluorescent vs incandescent
They differ considerably. Incandescent bulbs give off more heat and use more electricity -- meaning they cost a bit more to run. Most incandescent lights give off a yellowish cast as well. You can purchase colored incandescent bulbs but I've read that they are unhealthy for fish.
All things considered -- fluorescent lighting is far superior to incandescent lighting. As a rule of thumb you'll want fluorescent bulbs with a "K" rating (the color spectrum of a bulb is measured in "K" for Kelvin) of 5000K to 6500K for all around use and good plant growth. Fluorescent bulbs do lose their intensity and need to be replaced about once a year.
Hope that helps!
CT
From: Kick 7/15/00
Subject: To CT--I needed that!
I have problems finding the "right" bulbs for my tank. With the info you provided, I now know for sure what "K" I am looking for. Thanks. Kick
From: CT 7/15/00
Subject: Check a local hardware store for big savings...
I picked up some GE Sunshine 5000K bulbs at Home Depot for $6 a piece. Upon installation, my Vals instantly shot through the roof and the offshoots developed new offshoots.
CT
From: Kick 7/16/00
Subject: Re: Check a local hardware store for big savings...
Thanks again. At least now I know what to guy there or Lowe's. They do carry GE where I am, but I am never quite sure if the light is the right "kind and amount" that I need for the plants. Hubby going there in a bit, and I will have him look. Kick