Petfish.net Message Board Archive No. 12 Part 1A

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From: Dave 2/25/00
Subject: ICK or ICH???

Simple question, are ICK and ICH the same thing (white spots)?
Reason I ask is, regarding the worm thread below, I was told to use CLOUT to rid myself of these worms. I was told they are most likely Anchor Worms, although apparently they may be Planaria as well. (All the new terms to learn... :P )
CLOUT is also used to fight ICK among other things. Following that, if ICK is actually ICH, then I cannot use this since I have Pictus Catfish which are scaleless. At least, that is the impression I am under, that the Pictus can't be treated the same way as other fish.
I know I am not treating them for ICH, but I want to make sure I don't use a chemical that also works on ICK that may hurt my Cats as a result.
If ICK and ICH are not the same, then I will be alright, I just need to know before I use this CLOUT stuff.
Thanks for any help understanding all this new stuff.
Dave

From: Kick 2/25/00
Subject: Re: ICK or ICH???

As you will read from the "worm" message below, it is the same thing....ick or ich. Now PLEASE
DON'T USE THE CLOUT!!!!!!!! You will kill your catfish. The box does not say a word about "Scaleless fish", but I found a web site, and the exact words were "If the disease won't kill them, the CLOUT will. It has malachite green and cannot be used on scaleless fish. They say on a lot of medications to "cut the strength in half", but personally, I would not risk it. I, unknowingly, treated a tank of ick with medication that had malachite green in it, and it killed practically all my scaleless fish. The ones it did not kill had a hard time recovering, not eating for several days and laying helplessly on the bottom of the tank. As soon as I had realized what I had done, I changed 50 percent of the water every day for 3 days and watched them very closely. Fortunately, they finally snapped out of it and are okay now. But I lost about 7 year-old plus fish from using the stuff. Before using anything....read up on it.....what the directions say and also check it out on the net. I learned a big lesson.
As far as ick goes, I have found that Aquari-sol is the very best for all fish, plants and tank. Raise the temp slowly in the water to 80 degrees and treat every day for l week with 12 drops of aquari-sol per l0 gal. of water. Then change l/4 of the water, suctioning the rocks well and then use the aquari-sol once every week for prevention. It is great stuff and very cheap.
Hope you get the worms cleared up. I don't have a clue on that one. Have decided my "worms" are strips of potato from my vegetarian friends. Kick

From: Dave 2/26/00
Subject: Re: ICK or ICH???

Thanks for confirming the ICK-ICH thing. Thankfully, I remembered seeing it somewhere but wasn't sure so I held off on the Clout.
Don't know what to do now.
Dave

From: CT 2/25/00
Subject: Ram & eggs

A week and a half ago I bought a German Blue Ram (what a beautiful and interesting fish!). She has taken to her new home very nicely and is a great addition to my 10 gallon tank. She deposited a bunch of eggs last night -- on top of a rough surfaced rock in the middle of a patch of Java ferns. She's meticulously guarding and cleaning the eggs and seems to be a very good mother. The question is can I slip a male in the tank and hope he can fertilize the eggs or is this batch a total loss? If they don't get fertilized what happens next --should I remove them now? It's seems kind of cruel to let her guard these eggs for nothing. :(
BTW, this is a great site with very helpful articles.
Thanks in advance,
CT...

From: Christa and Kara 2/25/00
Subject: New Message Board

Me and my friend Kara have created a message board. Feel free to come visit and enjoy yourself. Hope to see you there!
~Christa <>{
http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/52103

From: Karla 2/26/00
Subject: Re: New Message Board

The board seems nice ,But to hard on the eyes.The colors are pretty,but I just have to much strain trying to read the posts.
Girls love to have bold colors,and I for one would enjoy them but as I have gotten older my eyes have gotten worse and so I can not read the pink on blue,the blue on blue,or even the green on blue.The yellow on blue is ok though.At least that color is bright enough to see the lettering.Funny,some people there were fine with the colors,some could not see.That tells you who is older and who is younger LOL!!!
Congradulations on your new site girls.

From: Jose 2/24/00
Subject: Check out these two fishkeeping message boards

Hi everyone. I enjoy this site, but somehow the quality of the advice here is lacking.... I encourage you all to visit these two message boards (without forgetting about this great site of course).
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/default.asp
http://www.aqualink-too.com/ubb/board/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
There are many experienced and very good advisors on these boards, and you'll find that many of the answers given to posts on this site are not exactly....correct.
Enjoy!
Jose

From: Kick 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Check out these two fishkeeping message boards

Just checked out the first site you have listed and man, oh, man. Looks to me like there is too much "fussing" going on there. I think I will just stay here and with Badman. Thanks anyway. Kick

From: kitty fish 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Check out these two fishkeeping message boards

well you know i have to recommend RedKat's Tropical AND Goldfish Forum. link there from www.rk2000.com hate to say it, but these guys are the best! go join 'em! :)
kitty fish

From: Karla 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Check out these two fishkeeping message boards

One site was to confusing,the other one is pretty cool,but I like the uncomplicatedness here.I also like one other but of course I see you all there to so the two boards I like we all agree on LOL!!

From: Jay 2/24/00
Subject: Worms in tank.

Help, I'm new to fish. I have little worms coming out from under the gravel and up the air tubes. What are they and how do I get rid of them? Thanks in advance.

From: Kick 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Worms in tank.

Now, I'm curious. I have an established 2 year-old 55 gal. tank. I put a raw potato in for my pleco, which by the way, he did not eat but the gouramis went wild over. I was cleaning my rocks and all these little "white" things were being suctioned out. What color are the worms you are seeing? I am now wondering if I have the same thing or if it really was "strips" of potato like I first thought. I recently removed my UGF as it was disgusting. Maybe I "hatched" something by doing that. Now we both want to be "in the know". Happy Fishkeeping, Jay. Kick

From: Dave 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Worms in tank.

I have the same thing, in a three week old tank. They are about a millimeter in length and if you watch closely you can see the things moving along the glass.
I have added no vegetables, and I remember seeing this mentioned on a web page somewhere stating that all fish could have these and they are easy to control and cause no harm if kept under control. However, I cannot find the page where I saw this, since at the time I did not have a fishtank and was only researching....
Dave

From: kitty fish 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Worms in tank.

Dave's worms sound more like planaria. planaria are common in ponds and only thrive when water conditions in the tank are less than ideal. scrape them off, change the water more often, and cut back on food, Dave. the other two cases sound more difficult, if they are infact little wiggling worms poking up out of the gravel. in most cases, you will have to strip the entire tank and boil everything down to get rid of them. you could try an invertebrate killer, like Had-A-Snail, but remember this kills ALL invertebrates, and ive found it to affect pH. hth, some
kitty fish

From: Dave 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Worms in tank.

Yeah, my conditions weren't the best because I fell victim to the over feed the new fish syndrome...
I was told they may also be Anchor Worms. I was then advised to use a chemical called CLOUT. My new question is, this medicine is also used for ICK, among other things. I have seen the mention of ICH before so are they the same thing just a typo, or completely different?
Dave

From: Jay 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Worms in tank.

Thanks so far. The worms are sort of orange, in an almost clear outer tube. They kind of look like very small (a few mm) tube worms. You know the kind at the bottom of the ocean. Yes, it,s a freshwater tank. We keep the tank clean I think. Partial water changes every week. But we may be overfeeding. If it's not a big deal how do we keep them under control? Thanks again. Jay

From: Kick 2/25/00
Subject: Re: Worms in tank...Clout....Ick (Ich)

Dave, thanks for the info on your "worms". I am pretty sure that my "worms" are just strips of potato. They are completely white and I don't see anything on the glass or swimming. By your description, maybe someone else can help you.
Now for the message about Clout. Be very careful of this product. It does not say on the box, but I found a page on the web, and it is very good stuff, but should not be used with "scaleless" fish. I did not use Clout, but I found out the hard way what malachite green can do to these poor fellas. I had Ick (Ich) (can be spelled either way....is the same thing), and I treated "before" investigating the product I used. It did contain malachite green and killed off most of my scaleless little buddies. I was so sad, because I had had them for quite a while. Just thought I would put my two cents in. Hope you find out about the "worms". I will keep checking your message just to see what they may be. Hope you get it straightened out. Kick

From: Karla 2/24/00
Subject: I am sure this has been answered before but ?

Do I need to add salt to my tank? I have the convict Cichlids,have a 29 gallon set up.I want what needs to be done for my fish to stay healthy .I used to add some salt to my other cichlid tank,but only small amounts.I think it was 2 teas spoons to the 55 gallon tank.They were health as horses but I am not sure any more if I should add to my tank now. *Thanks *karla

From: amber 2/25/00
Subject: Re: I am sure this has been answered before but ?

You dont HAVE to add salt to freshwater tanks. As long as your fish are healthy and happy, you dont need to worry.

From: Karla 2/26/00
Subject: Thanks Amber N/T

N/T

From: Karla 2/24/00
Subject: Large Lava rock

I live in a some what small town,I am looking to buy Lava rock so my convicts have places to hide.Any one out there have some to sell?
please email me if you do .Thanks *Karla

From: Karla 2/24/00
Subject: Got my cichlids(pink) now both black convict cichlids are chasing the pink ones.

How does one remedy the situation of the black convicts,chasing the pink ones all over? When I got the 2 Black convicts the bigger convict chased the smaller black one,now they both consentrate on chasing the pink ons.

From: Kara 2/24/00
Subject: source of high ph?

A friend of mine has a 20 gallon community tank with hmmm...3 corycats, 1 pleco, 1 jupari, 1 molly, 1 kuhli loach, 2 cherry barbs, 1 hatchet, and 1 platy. I think I got that right. Well she tested her water today only to find that her ph was at about 9 and her ammonia was high (2.something). She does not know what caused either of these. I have heard that the ph down products are only temporary untill the source of the problem is found. If anyone knows how to help my friend, I know that both she and I would appriciate it. One more thing, none of the fish in her tank seem to be affected by this high ph and ammonia. Thanks!
0< Kara

From: Jose 2/24/00
Subject: Re: source of high ph?

First of all, I will assume that the tank is not cycled (new tank?). If so, she has too many fish to start a tank, and ammonia is building up. Has she tested for nitrites? If not, ask her to do so, it should be spiking soon.
If the tank is not new, she's probably overfeeding the fish, or her biological filter has somehow been damaged.
A pH of 9 is high for the fish she has. African cichlids would enjoy such pH, but no the fish she has. An ammonia concentration of 2ppm is high, and combined with a pH of 9 (or >7.0) is deadly!
Ammonia is a strong base that exists in equilibrium with amonium (which is not dangerous to fish). At pH lower than 7.0, the equilibrium is displaced to favor amonium production, and so a slightly high ammonia concentration is not too dangerous. However, at pH greater than 7.0, ammonia is the predominant form, and even small concentrations (<1ppm) can be deadly! Temperature is also a factor to consider. At higher temperatures (>80F) ammonia predominates. The oposite occurs at lower temperatures.
She should start implementing daily 25% water changes (without cleaning the filter or vacuuming the gravel) for a week or so. Avoid overfeeding fish (to prevent further increments in ammonia concentration).
Good luck,
Jose

From: Kara 2/25/00
Subject: Re: source of high ph?

Thank you Jose for the informative responce...I will be sure to pass it along to my friend.

From: Tom 2/24/00
Subject: pH 9 and 2 ppm Ammonia is NOT GOOD

Kara,
I think that the beginners, who I talk to, worry way too much about pH and measuring their water. But pH 9 is too high. I think pH 8.5 is about as high as freshwater fish like. And 2 ppm of ammonia will surely lead to big problems.
Your friend should immediately start to change 20% of her water every day. But don't let her panic and start changing more than 20%, that will only cause more problems.
Usually the pH goes high because the aquarium has gravel or rocks with the wrong minerals. Has she added new gravel or rocks lately?
She needs to take some action particularly to reduce the ammonia, which is often caused by uneaten fish food in the gravel. She should wash her gravel with a gravel cleaner.
Finally, if you need more information (and we all do) read the LINK at
http://www.aquariumfish.net/advice_essentials.htm
for the most important basics, and links to other information.
Hope this helps your friend.
Tom

From: Kara 2/24/00
Subject: Re: pH 9 and 2 ppm Ammonia is NOT GOOD

Thanks Tom. She has no rocks in there and I'm pretty sure the gravel is all from when she first set up the tank. I will be sure to ask her though, and I'll post back.
0< Kara

From: daniel 2/24/00
Subject: mollies

Hi,
i have a couple of silver mollies for almost a year,
during this period one of them is always with brown spots , although it might change in a couple
opf hour from just a bit of brown complextion to fully brown spots over the body, it is only this fish
and no other fish are affected and she doesn't seem to care about it,
the other silver mollie has a lot of black spots at times but again it disappears after a short while.
my water temp is 76-78, i use a teaspoon of salt for each gallon , and change water at least
every two week, diet is flakes and blood worms, no other fish is affected by that....
-daniel

From: amber 2/24/00
Subject: Re: mollies

as long as their tank is clean and the fish are eating and active, i dont think you need to worry too much :)

From: stuart smith 2/23/00
Subject: wheres clint he hasnt been here for ages?

n/m

From: Clint 2/24/00
Subject: Re: wheres clint he hasnt been here for ages?

Hi Stuart,
I'm having some problems right now and can't spend much time online. Hopefully I'll get it together soon.
Looking over the board quickly I can see that most questions are being answered very well.
And my thanks goes out to the helpful people who visit the board.
Clint

From: Karla 2/23/00
Subject: Frontosa Cichlid

Any one have experience with this fish?

From: Argh!!! 2/23/00
Subject: my posts will not post!!

I go down,write out my message then hit post message and then "there is no post" !! I have refreshed,reloaded,and to no avail!! I do hope this one posts as I am tired of posting 6 times to get on one post!!
Is this happening to any one else but me?? I must be the odd man out LOL!!!

From: karla 2/23/00
Subject: Re: my posts will not post!!

well,did it post??

From: Karla 2/23/00
Subject: blood Parrot

I have noticed a lot of anger over this fish called the blood parrot.Any one here have a link so I can go look at it.I do not want tobuy one,just curious.Thanks **Karla

From: Karen 2/24/00
Subject: Re: blood Parrot

Hi,
I have a picture of one of mine on my homepage. If you scroll down to the bottom of my page you will find a link to "Pictures Of My Fish". My Parrot is the first picture on that page. Here is the address:
The Tropical Fish Forum
http://home.beseen.com/hobbies/myfishforum00

From: Karla 2/24/00
Subject: Great site Karen!!

Thanks for the great site,I will be going back often.
Can you tell me a little about this fish,and why people are so angry about it.

From: Karen 2/24/00
Subject: Re: Great site Karen!!

Hi Karla,
Thank you so much!! I am glad you like my site and I look forward to seeing you on my board. Feel free to drop by any time!
The Parrot is a cross between a Gold Severum and a Red Devil. There is another possible parent involved but I can't remember the name. Many people are against it beacuse they consider it to be man-made. They claim that Parrots have no swim bladder, are sterile and have deformed mouths which causes them to not eat properly. I don't know about them not having a swim bladder but I do know that mine have absolutely no trouble eating.....they are all pigs!! Also at least two of my Parrots are fertile. My female has laid eggs, but they were eaten and one of my males mated with my Pink Convicts eggs.
Some people are so against this poor fish. I really don't know why, if two fish of different species decide to mate who are we to stop it? I had nothing to do with my Parrot and Convict breeding, mother nature is to blame for that! I also have a Red Devil and a Gold Severum together, if they decide to mate and have baby Parrots that will be through no fault of mine. Who am I to control who my fish wants to mate with?
Parrots are really great fish, do you plan to get one? I know they can grow between 6-8 inches, I have also heard up to 10 inches. I assume it takes them many years to grow, the one on my homepage is about 4 inches. I got her 15 months ago and she was about 2 1/2 inches then. They eat just about any kind of food and are really fun to watch. They kind of waddle when they swim, either do to the lack of a swim bladder or because they are so chubby! Mine have been kept in both my aggressive tank and my community tank, they do fine in both tanks.
That is about all I can tell you about them, just what I have heard and what I know about my own. Thanks again for the compliment on my site! I really appreciate it. : )

From: Karla 2/24/00
Subject: Blood Parrot

I agree my self,why do we judge what is done in nature! so there is cross breeding,we all are cross breed!
I am not looking to get one per say,I was just curious to all the arguing about a fish! So I really wanted to see what one looked like and they are pretty nice looking.
again thank you for the info*Karla

From: karla 2/23/00
Subject: posting problem

I have been posting here on netscape but my message does not come up no matter how I refresh,or reload my browser.I have to go to explorer just to see if my post has been posted,I even go off line,come back on (netscape and no message.But when I go to the Explorer ste its here.any one else have this problem?

From: Lynn 2/23/00
Subject: Platies & Swordtails

Hi - How do you tell the difference between platies and female swordtails? Thanks.

From: Theresa 2/24/00
Subject: Re: Platies & Swordtails

Female swords are generally narrower and longer in the body. Platies are more diamond shaped. It's a subtle difference but it's there. Hope this helps.

From: Tom 2/23/00
Subject: I used to LOOK at the Label on the Aquarium.

Lynn,
Long ago I started by looking at the labels on the aquariums in the Live Fish Stores. Since they had trouble telling Swordtails from Platies they usually put them in different aquariums with a label!
After a while I could tell for myself without the label. How do I do it? I'm not sure.
Later I learned that Swordtails and Platies had been hybridized (interbred) and so it's kind of confusing. Every now and then I see a fish that looks like a little of each and just might be!
Please try my web site at
http://www.AquariumFish.net
and post me a comment here with your opinion about it,
Thanks,
Tom
Hope this helps,
Tom

From: Christa 2/22/00
Subject: Rainbow Cichlid

Today I got a rainbow cichlid and I am just wondering if they need any special food/care aside from a normal tropical fish. Thanks a bunch!
~Christa <>{

From: Fran 2/24/00
Subject: Re: Rainbow Cichlid

I do not know much about these fish, but it seems to me that you should learn about a fish *before* you buy him and add him to your tank. For all you know, he will attack or be attacked by the other fish in your tank, or he likes a different ph, temp, etc than you have. All I can say is do your homework...

From: Christa 2/24/00
Subject: Re: Rainbow Cichlid

I did do homework! I researched their water quality needs and if they were agressive or not. The fish in my tank are not agressive so I didn't worry about them bothering her. I just wanted to know if maybe they liked alot of hiding places and things like that. I was just wondering about the extras.
~Christa <>{

From: karla 2/22/00
Subject: black cichlids

How to tell sex of black convicts cichlids,I can not find pictures of the two (male and female) I can tell the difference between pink convicts,but not the blacks,any help would be appreciated much.I thought I had a male female pair but the one fish chases the smaller fish all over the place. thanks

From: Tom Bailey 2/22/00
Subject: How to Determine the Sex of Convict Cichlids.

Karla,
You probably know that the female Pink Convict has a pink/orange spot her stomach. Usually she does. Sometimes it's small and hard to see, but sometimes it huge like the one at
http://www.aquariumfish.net/prod_fish_cich_neotropical_convict_pink.htm
Now Wild Black Convict Cichlid Females have the same spot. But their bodies produce the black, blue, and other dark pigments that the Pink Convict females don't produce. These dark pigments make it harder to see the pink/orange spot on the stomach of the Wild Black Convict.
Male Cichlids even at a small size usually have a bigger bump on their forehead and longer more pointed fins. These are extra hints that may help you determine males and females, but with Convicts the pink/orange spot on the females stomach is the best clue.
Now I suppose you're interested in this because you'd like to breed some convicts. But wait! Even if you put one male Convict and one female Convict in a perfect aquarium and everything is just right, they never pair off for me.
The magic missing ingredient is to give them a choice. Get at least 6 or better 8 to 12 Convicts and let them pair off. This is the only way that's ever worked for me, and I've tried every way of breeding Cichlids that I could think of.
If you haven't already been there, you might LINK to
http://www.aquariumfish.net/advice_how_to_raise_baby_fish.htm#Breeding Pink Convicts
Hope this helps you.
Tom

From: Karla 2/23/00
Subject: thanks Tom

I will look for the spots,also the fin size.
I just ordered more convicts,pink,and black.we will see what comes out of it.Have a great week.*Karla

From: Tom 2/23/00
Subject: Re: Karla, Did you Try the LINK to AquariumFish.net???

Karla,
I'm still wondering I you try the LINK I gave you to my site
http://www.AquariumFish.net
If you did LINK, what was your opinion??
Just curious,
Tom

From: Karla 2/23/00
Subject: Re: Karla, Did you Try the LINK to AquariumFish.net???

Yes and the site is wonderful,I am still trying to find info on what chiclids go with what cichlids for a peaceful tank.I am so please with my tank I am going to go out and get another one soon.
I have always done fish,mostly comunity and have always done extremly well.I enen did cichlids a few years back but never saw them as they were always hiding some where in my huge tank.I am willing to do cichlids again as they are facinating.I do believe the next tank will be bigger fish like the the bigger cichlids .I saw one that really facinated me,it has a large forehead and is large,around 12 inches in length or more.I would like to have something like that!
thanks for your help with my convicts,I will be getting more in tomorrow and we will see how things go.

From: discusDude 2/22/00
Subject: chiclids

i have a puny little ten gallon tank, the same one i started my aquarium hobby with about 5 yrs ago...
I am considering now gettinga 55 gal, maybe 72, I'll see what I can afford..
ANYWAY... my question.
The water in my area is extremely hard, don't have any figures on hardness, but it is difficult
to remove the stains that form on anything the water hits. pH is pushing the limits of
my test kit, but is somewhere around 8.5-9.0 + or so I cant tell. my test kit color chart only goes to 8.2. I keep the water in my ten gallon
at pH 6.5 or so for my angels. but in my new tank i am thinking about high pH-hard water
fish, so that i dont go through the large amounts of pH buffer down i do now for water changes and top-offs.
I am thinking about some african chiclids.. any suggestions on what to get, I think i can handle
a fairly "difficult" to keep fish, but would prefer it not be too finick about it's foods. i feed tubifex cubes, tank nibblers,
tetra flakes, brine shrimp, live and freeze-dried, and blood worms, but am willing to do whatever it takes to get an easier
to maintain fish.
later
--Tyler

From: Jose 2/22/00
Subject: Re: chiclids

Your water sounds very good for African cichlids! Probably lake Tanganyika cichlids will be most appropriate since the water in that lake has the highest pH (8.6-9.06), highest number of total dissolved solids, and highest carbonate content.
You'll need to get advice from someone else as to what specific species are suitable to keep together, as I am new to cichlids (just set up a 180-gal for cichlids after well over 25 years of experience in the hobby). You also need to research proper substrate for the fish, and get lots of rocks to provide caves and hiding places.
Good luck,
Jose

From: karla 2/22/00
Subject: thanks for all help on cichlids

your links were quit helpful and I am very happy to say I did get most of my questions answered.
glad to have some one out there with the links and knoledge to help me.have a great week.

From: Christa 2/22/00
Subject: Tropheops, Malawi Peacock, and Red Zebra.

Does anyone have any information on these fish? I am intetrested in getting them but I have a few questions first. How big will they grow? Are they community tank fish? Are they hardy? What do they eat? Do they need special treatment? Are they compatible with these fish:
3 small corycats (1/2 inch each)
1 small Jupari (2 inches)
1 gold dust molly (1 inch)
1 small pleco (2 inches)
2 small cherry barbs (1/2 inch each)
1 kulhi loach (3 inches)
1 hatchet (1 inch)
1 parrot fish (2 inches)
Please post back. I am mostly interested in the Tropheops and the Red Zebra. Any help or advice would be great! Thanks a bunch!
~Christa <>{