Topic: Sodium thiosulfate and chloramines

[bulrush]

I just received 2 lbs of ST crystals and have been reading up on how to mix it to make dechlorinator for my tap water. As I'm reading, some sites say this will not treat chloramines, only chlorine. However, the Jungle brand dechlor which was simply sodium thiosulfate, said it WOULD treat chlorine and chloramines.

1) Does my homemade ST treat chloramines also?

2) How do I mix it up and use it? I have found several recipes online and  don't know which to use.

p.s. Sodium thiosulfate dechlor is no longer available in my area, hence I have to make my own.

[toddnbecka]

That's the main ingredient in the Genesis dechlor I use. It says it will detox heavy metals along with the chlorine, but never mentions chloramine. It's concentrated stuff, 1 drop/gallon, and even with all my tanks a bottle lasts for months.

[LittlePuff]

Prime does.

[RinsMom]

http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-tapwater.html

This article says it only neutralizes the chlorine in chloramine.

The way I understand it, is that the sodium thiosulfate just binds up the chlorine, which then "releases" the ammonia into the water, stressing your fish.


http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-cond.htm

That chart also talks about that same problem.......

[bulrush]

I never had any problems when I used the Jungle brand sodium thiosulfate. I think the ammonia released must be very small.

However I'm still concerned about chloramines. The Jungle product said it took care of chloramines and ST was the only active ingredient listed.

[RinsMom]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/

Pretty technical, but at the bottom here's a quote: 

Thiosulfate is also equally suited to dechlorinating free chlorine in water, and it has gained wide use in marine and freshwater aquaria. Unfortunately, the ammonia that is produced as a result of the reaction is still toxic. Consequently, thiosulfate alone is not always adequate for eliminating toxicity from chloramine.

Basically, the way I see it, chloramine is Nh2Cl... or one molecule of Ammonia (Nh2) bound to one molecule of Chlorine (Cl).

The Sodium Thiosulfate removes the chlorine (or neutralizes it, so you don't "kill" the fish with the chlorine), but that then leaves the ammonia (Nh2) in the tank which then ALSO affects the fish by increasing ammonia levels, which is also harmful.

So, when it says it "takes care of" chloramine, it does... in a way... the chloramine is gone, but the ammonia is still there.

It used to be that with basic chlorine treated water, all we needed to worry about was chlorine... and ST DID take care of that.  Chloramine is a much  more stable product in the water and does not dissipate easily as the chlorine did.

And... the more water changes you do (to then try to remove the resulting higher ammonia) just raises the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates even more.

It is better if you can find a product (like Prime, or Amquel) that ALSO neutralizes the ammonia.

[LittlePuff]

Why does doing water changes raise the ammonia/NitrIte/NitrAte levels?

[Yipee]

Why does doing water changes raise the ammonia/NitrIte/NitrAte levels?

I think it's because the more w/c you do, the more water conditioner you use that somehow turns chloramine into ammonia so the ammonia accumulates. I'm not sure whether I'm correct.

[bulrush]

Yippee, yes that is what RinsMom is saying. What I'm saying is the ammonia that is freed by ST is not significant. I have used it for various types of freshwater shrimp (very sensitive to ammonia levels) since 2005 until it was taken off our local market in 2010. When doing 50% water changes in a shrimp-only tank I never had shrimp deaths or any other problems in a cycled tank.

[RinsMom]

That could very well be, Bulrush......  I think it also depends on pH to an extent, also.