Topic: BLEEDING SCALES!

[pheredia]

I'm not sure what happened?  I've had my little guy for almost two years and I've never had a problem.  Yesterday, I changed his water after letting it sit and doing the whole process (as usual) I put him back and he swam around, then just layed at the bottom, but he always does that when I first put him back, then he'll swim around later.  When I woke up the next moring, his eyes looked white (as if going blind) and sunken in.  I left to work and when I returned, he was a little worse but with the same symptoms.  Then, right before I went to bed I checked up on him and when I looked closely I could see that he was bleeding from the tip of his tail and on some of his scales, so now I'm really freaked out.  So, I start thinking, "maybe I forgot to add the Conditioner" Could this have happened from that?  Now I have already changed his water and am going to see tomorrow moring what happens.  I wonder what it could have been?

[knifegill]

Wait. You knew your betta was being shocked by each water change and did nothing to correct this? You should have expected far worse long ago. This sounds to me like a bacterial infestation, something along the lines of septicemia. Is blood leaking into the fins or actually clouding the water around them?

 With the approaching senility of your betta, frailty will ensue and you will need to be changing his water more gently from now on or risk worse and worse reactions, okay?

Is it the temperature or the pH which is different in the two waters? Something is freaking your guy out of he's laying on the bottom every change. Healthy transitions typically involve exploratory behavior and fiesty resistance, not any kind of sulking or sinking. How long does he lay on the bottom exactly? More than ten or fifteen seconds?

PH test kits are usually super cheap if you don't have one. Liquid is better. I think the strip type is sprayed on or dipped on, both methods will leave variables in test accuracy.

If nothing else, treat him like a new fish every time you change him, gradually acclimating over the course of about an hour. This will greatly ease the transition. It is better, if you don't have a thermometer and are a bad guesser, to move a fish into *slightly* warmer water than cooler. By slightly, I mean two or three degrees, just enough to feel by swishing your hand in the new water. I'm not sure what could be stressing him if you let his new water acclimate to the similar conditions as his old ones. Please tell more about what else might change the water in either. Any shells or other dissolving decoration in the water? We can figure this out!

For treatment, since water changes are seemingly part of the problem, I'd advise using a broad spectrum antibiotic at appropriate dosing for his tank, but cut it in half so that you are only changing the water every other day.

Any other opinions to help our friend?


*there is the sad, slim chance that he is ready to move on into the next world simply by virtue of age*

[pheredia]

I always let the water sit before add them.  I condition the water. I use Aquasafe drops, I add aquarisol as a weekly treatment, I add aquarium salt, and sometimes (new fish) I add Betta Fix.  I've always done this, for about 2 years already.  I change the water every week.  I'm not sure how big his tank is, but it's about a full gallon for sure.  He only lays at the bottom for about 5 Mins MAX when he enters the water at first, then he starts swimming around.  This last time he was perfect, I let the water sit, but when I added him in, I guess he never swam up (I went to bed) I notice all these other symptoms the next morning and when I got home from work.
I'm not sure what you mean about changing the water more gently.  He's the only fish in the tank and one little plant with those glass pebbles.  When I change the water, I cup him out of the tank with my hands (very gently).  I've never tested the pH or anything, but I know that i checked to see if my water was dangerous for the fish and it wasn't (somehitng about hard water is bad for fish or something)  I know my water isn't too hard for them.  So, I don't know what else it could be?
That's why it leaves me to think that I forgot to add the conditioning drops or something.  The bleeding had gotten heavier.  It's not clouding the water though, it's more like clumpped up. Little clumps of blood laying at the bottom of the bowl (now I've switched him to a much smaller (empty) bowl where I can watch him closly).  I'm hoping he gets better by the time I get home, but this moring he was WAY worse.  What hsould I do?  I feel so helpless!!!!!

[knifegill]

There are a number of possibilities, I think. If your water company changed their purifying methods there may be chemicals in your tap you haven't needed to worry about before.

I have not heard of this bleeding condition before, or the sunken eyes accompanying. I have not treated any of my fish for bacterial infections, so I don't know what will work best. Probably a penicillin type.

Definitely make sure he stays warm, around eighty degrees. Some diseases progress faster at ths temp, but since we don't know what it is, he's likely better off at a comfy temp than cold.

Changing by hand is what I do, too. I think they like staying in some water more than being seined dry by a net in the wind. By more gently, I only meant more slowly. Using something like the 'new fish' acclimation method.

If you can afford or are able to, definitely buy a pH tester. Or take your water to the store if they test for free. Hardness is mineral presence and pH is how acidic or alkaline/basic the water is. Usually, hardness is not an issue unless you use well water or some other-than-tap source, or can see white scale in your bathtub or on faucets and stuff. Very low or high pH could 'burn' the fish's skin under the scales, and there is a minute possibility that this may be happening here, with the bleeding and all. You'll want to test not only your tap water, but some 'old' water from the tank. I hope we can help your guy out!

Please forgive me if I sounded overly critical in my first reply. I was wrong in using such strong wording in response to a plea for help. Please accept my apology.  

[pheredia]

Apology accepted! Last night, my little guy passed away    He was the first Betta I ever had.  He's the reason I started buying Bettas. (That's him right there in blue (my profile Pic)) I can't believe he's gone just like that, after I tried so hard to do everything right. It just goes to show you that no matter how right you do things, when it's your time to go, it's your time to go.  
I do have a water sample of the water he was in before he passed.  I'm going to get it tested, as well as some new water.  
Thank you so much for all your help.  

[Gen Gen]

its a far reach but i would also suggest trying to contact a vet. keep trying till you can find one somewhere that knows about fish. their few and far between i know but i have heard of some places that can assist with knowledge. Also i know the university up here has a vet program that rivals hospitals in quality etc. My inlaws have had to take a few of their pets up to the university (i can't think of the name but i know aquabelle knows the one i'm talking about i'm sure at least) anyways they have had to take their pets up there when the animals injury or such is beyond the vet's skills.

[Aquabelle]

Washington State University is the school with the massive vet department, Gen.  Vet School, Vet MRI, fish department etc.