Topic: shell shock

[lilfishgurl]

well, i know that in order for a snails shell to grow optimumly (is that a word?) it needs calcium. (DUH!!) so my question is if i can use calcium pills in the water to help that along until i can find some snail foods or water treatments to do the trick. ( i guess you could call this the  cheap way..) the pills contain oyster shell, mineral oil, maltodextrin, cellolose, hydroxpropl methylcellulose, titanium dioxide (color), stearic acid, magnesium stearate, and crospoidone. ( i figured no one was a Dr. or any thing, but i figured i'd give it a shot anyways)
also, if it is okay to use this, will it hurt my neon tetras in the tank??
 ** P.S- can anyone include pictures of a good snail shell and a bad one??
**PPS- what are the "growth lines" that people talk about when thay say they see their snail's shell growing??
~ thanks a bunch~  

[mastsnail]

Availability of calcium in the water column and as a food source are indeed factors that aid optimum shell growth in aquatic snails. While I've never used calcium sup's that were intended for humans, I've known of people who have. I've not heard any feedback about results as yet, however. But, I've not heard anything as negative as death in the tank, either. So, IMHO, the jury is still out on this subject. You could use chicken egg shells since they are completely natural calcium. The shells should be processed first, though before adding them to the tank.
Growth lines are visible in any snail's shell. However, when the snail has been subject to one set of conditions and then conditions change (maybe more than once), the growth lines are much more pronounced. I've got some pictures posted of a few species in an article on aquatic snails on the petfish homepage. You can see growth lines, but I don't have any pics of bad shell growth (I raise my own snails from babies and keep conditions at optimum levels) and don't have pictures of the first snails that I had (from Petsmart). Everything else I've got has been raised inside of my own tanks. I've seen some snails with deplorable shell damage. I won't buy them. There are a lot more pics of this type of scenario on applesnail.net if you'd care to look around that site.

[mastsnail]

Gut feeling, mind you, but I think it's good advice.

I have to agree with this. I guess I should have said so in the first place instead of "tap-dancing" around it, but that is also my feeling and my opinion about the use of such supplements in an aquarium.

[LisaAnne]

Well, I'm no Dr., but my profession is chemistry...

1) oyster shell - source of calcium

2) mineral oil - I don't know how good I would feel about adding inorganic oils to the water.  For toxicology: http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/oilmist/recognition.html (look under "Health Hazards")

3) maltodextrin - carbohydrate from corn starch, probably innocuous:  http://www.grainprocessing.com/food/malinfo.html

4) cellulose, hydroxpropl methylcellulose - possible eye and skin irritant

5)  titanium dioxide (color) - I'd worry about this one.  Possible carcinogen:  http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/titaniumdioxide/recognition.html#healthhazard

6)  stearic acid, magnesium stearate - fats

7)  crospoidone - did you spell this right?  Or, did you mean crospovidone?

Again, clearly it is okay for humans to ingest these things, so they can't be super dangerous.  But, like mastsnail and nietzsche say, you are getting a whole lotta junk along with that calcium, and you could get the same stuff (pure!) from just well-cleaned egg shells.

[mastsnail]

FYI: If you decide to use egg shells, here's how I do it:
Processing Egg Shells for Calcium: Wash shells in hot water. Collect an amount that will be "worth" processing (I use an old metal bread pan to collect the shells in). Bake in the oven at 350?F for about 15 mins. Remove and let cool. Place in a coffee grinder or in a ziploc baggie. If using ziploc baggie method, I use a wooden rolling pin to roll and roll over them until they are crushed to about the same particle size as large particle (blasting) sand. Turn off your filter and pour the shells into the water allowing them to settle into the substrate before turning the filter back on (this is esp. important if you use the type of filter with magnetic impeller assembly as the shells will get in the assembly and "score" (damage) your assembly).

[Yvette]

Ive got a picture of "BAD" shell growth and of course its too dang big to attach. I can email it to you if want it lilfishgirl.

[lilfishgurl]

thank yall for the information!!! (cant believe i found a chemist.. )
 guess i wont be using those calcium pills...
i'm going to give the egg shells a shot, but how do i know how much is too much or for that matter to less??
** and again, will this afect my neon tetras my tank is a 5 gallon??
** just for the record LisaAnne yeah, i did spell it wrong (oops) it was crospovidone

[mastsnail]

thank yall for the information!!! (cant believe i found a chemist.. )
 guess i wont be using those calcium pills...
i'm going to give the egg shells a shot, but how do i know how much is too much or for that matter to less??
** and again, will this afect my neon tetras my tank is a 5 gallon??
** just for the record LisaAnne yeah, i did spell it wrong (oops) it was crospovidone

I'd watch your pH, but eggshells mostly make my pH stable. They don't cause harsh swings. In acidic water (low pH), I think there would be a swing since they would dissolve into the water column much faster than in neutral or higher pH. I don't think (if your pH in your tank is neutral or higher) you'll have that problem.
Again, I add the shells of about one dozen eggs to my substrate weekly in a 55 gallon tank with 3 dozen snails in the tank. You'll want to do a little math on this, I guess, if you want to add at the same ratio as I'm using, but keep in mind that I also add liquid calcium daily.
Let's see, now...I'm using .33 egg shells per snail...so, if you had 2 snails in your 5 gallon tank and wanted to add the amount of egg shell I'm using per snail...you'd use approximately .66 eggshells or one eggshell, I guess. I don't cypher as well as Jethro, though!  

[mastsnail]

*bump*

Awesome.  We should sticky that.  

Thank you, kind sir...consider it stickified!

[LisaAnne]

Lilfishgurl,
I'm not sure, but I thought I had read somewhere that tetras like the pH to be around 6.5, whereas snails like it between 7-8.

Just to round out your ingredient list, crospovidone is actually really neat.  It's a homopolymer that is insoluble but rapidly swells in water.  So, it is used as a disintegrant for tablets.  I can't find anything too sinister about its aquatic toxicology, but it doesn't sound like you plan on using the pills anymore anyway.

Oh, and technically, I'm not a chemist... my degree is in chemical engineering... but I do mostly chemistry for my job now.