Author Topic: No luck ID'ing this illness or treating it, PLEASE help...  (Read 697 times)

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Offline QueenFisher

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No luck ID'ing this illness or treating it, PLEASE help...
« on: February 26, 2012, 06:25:54 PM »
Hi everyone, it has been a while since I have posted on here, and now I am posting because of some very ill luck with my 120g. How bad is this situation? The 120g angelfish community tank has been giving me trouble since some time in October or November, and I'm considering dumping/restarting the entire tank, or maybe just dumping it. I am worried that euthanasia may be in at least one fish's near future. I posted twice on the The Angelfish II forum during these past few months, but they have not helped me with the latest issue.

It's really quite an effort to type out the whole story from its beginning in the fall, and I think I scared potential advisers away the last time I did that, but you can check out one of my previous posts here.

Note: I'm a college student, but I have been maintaining 2 or 3 tanks at home despite going to college - the 120, a 33gal, and sometimes a 5 or 10gal. I go home every other weekend (literally, I alternate weekends between campus and home; they allow up to 10gal tanks in dorms, but regulations explicitly forbid swimming pools in campus residences, so I can't pass off a giant aquarium as a pool  :dunno:) and do a 50% water change on both larger tanks. When the 120gal started having issues, my parents started doing additional weekly water changes (when I'm not home for the weekend). The 120gal has a Rena FilStar canister filter.

Despite losing a few angelfish without any visible symptoms prior to suddenly becoming lethargic/occasional erratic swimming, I am considering the eyes issues to be my biggest problem right now. It's certainly harder to treat something when you have no idea what the heck it is. My gold angel has fuzzy brown growths in each eye, which started out as dark spots without obvious texture/mass. The growth is only the inside of the eye, I guess it's called the anterior chamber? It appears to be avoiding the pupil, instead growing on the surrounding silver area (a fish's iris?). However, it does appear to be growing outwardly, and I'm afraid it may push through/rupture the cornea. I suspect that the angel already has trouble seeing food at the surface, although it still makes the effort to eat.

The platinum angel that suddenly started suffering from unilateral popeye weeks later - I immediately added epsom salt to reduce swelling, but it is still kind of bulging outward. There are 2 dark spots under the tissue, above the eyeball, and I'm wondering if that's the same thing affecting the gold angel, just in a different area of the eye.

I first tried treating the eyes with PimaFix/MelaFix since that surprised me last time. I have no idea if the brown eye growth is fungal or bacterial, or if it's gram positive or gram negative bacteria. In other words, I have no idea what to treat it with. Medicine is burning a hole in my pocket & having ZERO effect, so I'm considering calling it quits.. at the very least, I am worried I will have to euthanize the gold angel if its eyes get too bad. After the MelaFix/PimaFix, I tried dosing the tank with Maracyn 2 (guessing that Aeronomas might be responsible). Nothing. I'm almost done with the following round of Maracyn 1, again to no effect. The medicated flakes did nothing, as far as I can tell. I dose the tank at half capacity, 60gal, which is still pretty expensive. I don't remove the visibly sick fish (2, at the moment) to a quarantine tank because I'm worried the other fish are also infected (like the few that died rather suddenly).

While I feel personally responsible for my fish, and I would miss this hobby if I gave it up entirely, these past few months have been incredibly frustrating and disappointing. I have spent, for me as an individual, a considerable amount of money, and lost more fish than I have saved. So, I'm hoping someone here has some good advice, or at the very least knows someone else I can ask.  :shrug:

If you didn't read that link, at least take a look at the pictures of the gold angel's eyes. The attached pictures are relatively old, I took them 2-3 weeks after the dark spots first appeared. Now, the growths have increased in size so that they connect to one each other and are way more visible. It stresses the poor fish out to have its picture taken, but if someone thinks they have an idea & needs to see more, I'll try to post updated pictures.

Offline LittlePuff

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Re: No luck ID'ing this illness or treating it, PLEASE help...
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 08:46:00 AM »
Can you post the link to that post?
90gal Upgrade from the 55gal.
55gal 5"porcupine puffer, 2 clownfish, 1 molly, and chocolate chip starfish, one Orange Diamond Goby


Offline LittlePuff

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Re: No luck ID'ing this illness or treating it, PLEASE help...
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 09:00:10 AM »
Never seen it before. If you don't get a response here in another day. PM Aptasia or Cholly.
90gal Upgrade from the 55gal.
55gal 5"porcupine puffer, 2 clownfish, 1 molly, and chocolate chip starfish, one Orange Diamond Goby

Offline Aiptasia

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Re: No luck ID'ing this illness or treating it, PLEASE help...
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 04:45:40 AM »
My best guess without observing the fish is that you're looking at a bacterial infection. Hexamita (hole in the head) can be caused by parasites OR elevated bacteria levels in the tank. Combine that with the fish's apparent columnaris infections, pop eye and skin sores and you're looking towards bacterial causes.

Angelfish are notorious pickers (like discus) and will comb the substrate for hours on end for anything remotely edible. It's paramount that you keep the substrate as clean as possible, which isn't always easy to do in a really big aquarium. What I would prescribe is more water changes, more water volume, more often. In my last angel tank (a 120), I had no substrate at all and kept the bottom of the tank scrupulously clean. Water changes were done once a week and the fish were constantly pairing off and breeding on me.

Treating the sick fish with broad spectrum antibiotics in a quarantine tank would be advisable to avoid wiping out the beneficial bacteria in your filters. If you don't do that and treat the main tank with antibiotics, you're going to have an ammonia spike in no time.
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Offline QueenFisher

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Re: No luck ID'ing this illness or treating it, PLEASE help...
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 11:32:19 AM »
Aiptasia, did you see the pictures attached to that link? The ulcers are no longer problem, and members of the Angelfish II forum suspected Hexamita as well (or possibly something worse). The suspected Hexamita is why I ordered anti-protozoan flake foods, but I also ordered the two antibiotic flake foods just in case. Which symptom are you associating with columnaris? The ulcers, because of the initial pimple-like nodules?

I use my Python to vacuum the substrate in all of my tanks, whenever I do water changes. Typically, I use gravel as my substrate, but I decided to do something different and try black sand in the 120g since it's basically a display tank. Sounds like I may have picked the wrong fish for a display tank if bare bottom is the safest bet, but everyone loves how the angels swim to the glass for attention.

Supposedly Maracyn and Maracyn II do not harm the beneficial bacteria colonizing the filter media, but I'm pretty sure this is my first time using these meds. I dosed the tank separately with Maracyn and Maracyn 2 (using Maracyn 2 before Maracyn 1; one treatment cycle for each med), with no improvement of symptoms. I considering trying one of several API products but I found more reviews on Maracyn, so I went with that. Now, any recommendations for a specific medication/product? I will be home again tomorrow, and the nearest LFS is Petsmart. My second choice was API Triple Sulfa, but Petsmart also carries API Tetracycline and API Erythromycin.
One of the medicated flake foods is laced with Oxytetracycline HCl, so does that mean the Tetracycline product is likely to be ineffective as well?

As for the flakes... well, I thought they would work fairly well as an internal treatment. Whenever I used them, the angelfish' poop was no longer white/clear. I am not sure if that means one of them, possibly the anti-protozoan flake, did its job & made some kind of fix, or if it's only a temporary fix. However, before I even had the medicated flake foods, wouldn't Levamisole HCl have taken care of Hexamita OR internal parasites, whichever was responsible for the abnormal poop? Or is it likely that the Hexamita occurred/returned after the Levamisole treatment?

The other antibiotic flake uses Kanamycin sulfate... I'm not sure if one of the medicated flake foods should be helping, but I went with what the seller Angel Plus said - feed for 8 days at a time, and don't feed more than one flake food during a treatment. I can move the two visibly ill fish to quarantine, but my worry has been that the other angelfish are infected but not yet symptomatic. Is that improbable?

I was surprised that the MelaFix/PimaFix healed the holes/ulcer, but maybe that merely remedied the damage and not the cause itself...? Despite this craptastic series of events, some of my angelfish have paired up and laid fertile eggs at least twice in last few months. Of course, some of those partners are now gone...  :-\