Topic: How do I know when to change my bettas water?

[Mariesh]

Just to let you know, it's NEVER recomended you do a 100% water change.
It strips the fish of beneficial bacteria it builds up on its skin, weakens its immune system, and could potentially kill the fish.
That doesnt mean all fish that have 100% water changes die immediately, it just means they could die from shock and illnesses escalated by the massive water change.

[wendyjo]

Please provide some info to back up your theory.

[Mariesh]

Try googling it im sure you can find some info backing it up. I'm sorry if i offended anyone, totally unintended. I only said what i did because i've lost fish this way.

Background info for the curious:
I've owned/kept fish for probably twelve or so years, and have had my share of stupid moments where i did something with my fish without researching it.
I had a five gallon tank a few years back that was set up with guppies and a black skirted tetra. A few weeks later i noticed that one of my guppies was sick with a fungal infection. After treating the whole tank i decided to do a full water change because the water stunk. WELL.... the water change sped up the rate of fungal growth and killed her. Almost all of them got sick from low immunity because the good bacteria was gone and didnt protect then from the spread of fungus. I thought the meds would work but when i changed the water it was after one treatment, so it didnt have time to work yet.
This five gallon was all glass, and at the time i didnt have enough money to buy a filter, so in essence its kinda like a giant jar.

recently i witnessed my neighbor changing the water in his betta bowls. He took them out then dumped the water in the bowl out then put the fish back in. Both of his bettas died a day later.... >.< that and he burns incense ALL THE TIME..... >.< (LOL the whole apartment complex smells like opium)


But just as a precautionary i wouldnt recomend doing a full water change. 75% at the most. 

[wendyjo]

Well, I have to say that you are the only person I've ever heard give advice against doing 100% water changes for a betta in an uncycled container, so I wouldn't say that it's NEVER recommended.  If you match the temp, use the same water source, and be sure to condition the water you really shouldn't have any problems.  I'm not sure what the beneficial bacteria on the skin is that you mentioned.  I've only heard of beneficial bacteria in relation to a cycled tank, and that bacteria resides in the filter, not on the fish.

The problem with doing partial water changes is that you are only diluting the ammonia that has built up, not totally removing it.  And ammonia is toxic to fish. 

I'm not sure that you can be completely sure that a water change killed your fish, since one was sick with a fungus that was probably contageous.   Plus, the fish that you mentioned cannot breathe air from the surface like a betta can, so really a filter, or at the very least an airstone, is crucial to the well being.

Having said all that, I suggest that each person always do their own research to determine what they feel is best for maintaining their tank(s). 

[jenazen69]

I think what you are talking about is the fishes natural stress coat. Some water treatments have agents in them to enhance the fishes natural stress coat. If you are worried about fish who get full water changes, just make sure the conditioner you are using includes the stress coat agent.

[CatWomanDiana]

Well, I have to say that you are the only person I've ever heard give advice against doing 100% water changes for a betta in an uncycled container, so I wouldn't say that it's NEVER recommended.  If you match the temp, use the same water source, and be sure to condition the water you really shouldn't have any problems.  I'm not sure what the beneficial bacteria on the skin is that you mentioned.  I've only heard of beneficial bacteria in relation to a cycled tank, and that bacteria resides in the filter, not on the fish.

I was having trouble with doing full water changes - until I got rid of the gravel.   Even though I was changing everything, including the tank (spare tank, two thermometers, prepare spare, move fish, clean that tank, lather, rinse, repeat), I was having trouble.  I finally got rid of the gravel, and stopped losing fish.  I am not sure if the gravel was retaining bad bacteria, despite being thoroughly rinsed in hot tap water - or if even dry the tap water had something in it.

I'm now doing a full tank switch for one fish - she's reasonably placid and I use a small ladle to move her, not a net.  The others I drain down with a plain tube suction down to just fish-high water, and then replace with water of the same temperature (I use bottled spring water - not going to even try to get the tap water working).  Once every few weeks I remove the fish and drain the tank.  Scrub it down with an algae sponge and aquarium salt; rinse with the bottled water; wipe down with paper towels.  The decorations and heater are rinsed in the hot tap water, but then I also soak them for a while in a 'bath' of the spring water with NovAqua (gotta do something with the stuff - I use Prime in the actual tank water - as well as a bit of the aquarium salt)

The 6 I have now I've had ranging from 4 to 8 months.  Given I was losing one a week for a while, this seems to be working for me.

dg

[Mariesh]

Honestly i have to go back on what i said the first time. I agree with you wendy the 100% change works in bowls, Tanks are the ones where you might not want to 100% changes. I experimented with the 100% change, and both my betta females are actually looking healthier. So, yeah, learned something new today XD...

[Beannie]

If I didn't cycle my tank, or get an ammonia test kit, will my Betta die?

[wendyjo]

No, but you have to do frequent water changes to keep the ammonia under control.

[CatWomanDiana]

I posted this in the measurement thread - but thought it sort of fit here, too.  I don't measure ammonia - I just change the water regularly whether it needs it or not.     BTW - I also use 2 pinches of the aquarium salt per pitcher.

Anyway - the other post:

I've wound up getting 2-litre pitchers from Smart&Final.  Prime directions say 2 drops for every 4 litres, so it makes it easy - 1 drop per pitcher-full.

Also makes it easy to quickly change water - I use bottled because the tap water here is pretty bad - so I fill about half-way with spring water, and fill a 2-cup beaker with water that I put in the microwave.  One long-cord probe thermometer in the existing tank, one in the pitcher - when the pitcher is about half a degree warmer than the tank, syphon out the tank (usually with fish still in it - down to just enough water for the fish to swim in), then re-fill with pitcher.  Two of the tanks take about 3 litres; the others I replace 4 litres at a time, once or twice a week(try for twice, but schedule and illness sometimes get in the way), all the way to the bottom about once a month; and complete re-change every few months (meaning remove fish, drain to bottom, scrub out with acrylic scrub pad and salt, rinse, wipe down, rinse heater and all decorations, etc.).  I don't do it more often because it seems very stressful on the fish.  The only one I do 100% more regularly is one in a large Lees tank that I can set up a brand new tank and just transfer the heater and her into the new tank.  BTW - I use a small ladle to move her - that also seems less stressful than a net.  And easier to clean.

dg